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RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy

SupersonicMax

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I spent time posted at a US Navy unit so I have an idea of what their traditions are.  Drinking in uniform outside the confines of the base was a big no-no.
 
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jollyjacktar

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Did you never do a Liberty port of call?  Anytime I've done a Fleet Week or seen them visit Halifax,  there was mucho drinking in uniform for both the Marines and Sailors.
 

dimsum

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SupersonicMax said:
I spent time posted at a US Navy unit so I have an idea of what their traditions are.  Drinking in uniform outside the confines of the base was a big no-no.

There is a big difference between fast jet (or aircrew) and the surface/sub-surface fleet in that regard.  I've worked with both from both Navy and Air Force side.  For the Surface/Subs folks, Fleet Week is pretty much an extended Remembrance Day piss-up. 

I wouldn't say that this is done to keep the sailors happy.  I'd say this is done so that cities show their support to the Navy and associated organizations.  HMCS Calgary wears Whites to the Stampede - it's the same sort of thing.
 

Stoker

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SupersonicMax said:
I spent time posted at a US Navy unit so I have an idea of what their traditions are.  Drinking in uniform outside the confines of the base was a big no-no.

Really? For certain events such as fleet week, the Portland rose fest , and special events such as the war of 1812 drinking was encouraged especially in uniform. Hell there was a open bar all you could drink as a thank you for the sailors, and all in uniform. The blue angels were even there and they were the biggest bags of crap.
 

SeaKingTacco

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SupersonicMax said:
I spent time posted at a US Navy unit so I have an idea of what their traditions are.  Drinking in uniform outside the confines of the base was a big no-no.

Context is everything, Max. Getting casually pissed in your USN whites on a week night in home port- not condoned.

Getting gooned at Fleet Week? That seems to be a whole other ball game to the USN....
 

Stoker

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SeaKingTacco said:
Context is everything, Max. Getting casually pissed in your USN whites on a week night in home port- not condoned.

Getting gooned at Fleet Week? That seems to be a whole other ball game to the USN....

Not everything is about drinking during these festivities but if you want to have a drink or many the US is not under the same restrictions as we are. The US as we are still under the "don't get into shit" rule.You get out of line you pay the consequences. I find our restrictions kill the fun for the kids, especially in regards to the uniform restrictions and alcohol policy.
 

Humphrey Bogart

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Chief Stoker said:
Not everything is about drinking during these festivities but if you want to have a drink or many the US is not under the same restrictions as we are. The US as we are still under the "don't get into crap" rule.You get out of line you pay the consequences. I find our restrictions kill the fun for the kids, especially in regards to the uniform restrictions and alcohol policy.

If people want to have a drink, they should be allowed.  Getting trashed in another story.  We have QR&Os/CSD for a reason.

I drink all the time in uniform, usually at lunch when I feel like having a beer before going back to the office.  It's not illegal to drink alcohol so why does the CAF treat alcohol like it's some sort of capital crime?

 

mariomike

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See also,

At the pub
http://army.ca/forums/threads/92199.0
OP: "You're 30 seconds in side the door and are promptly chewed out in front of everyone by some guy in the CF."



 

Pusser

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Humphrey Bogart said:
If people want to have a drink, they should be allowed.  Getting trashed in another story.  We have QR&Os/CSD for a reason.

I drink all the time in uniform, usually at lunch when I feel like having a beer before going back to the office.  It's not illegal to drink alcohol so why does the CAF treat alcohol like it's some sort of capital crime?

Actually, the CAF doesn't.  There may be some local policies at play in some locations, but there is no regulation prohibiting the consumption of alcohol in uniform.  There are a host of other regulations against being a jackass, but they're not necessarily uniform dependant.  No, there is nothing inherently wrong with having a drink in a public place in uniform, provided it is legal to have a drink there in the first place and that you don't do something stupid.
 

stoker dave

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Pusser said:
Actually, the CAF doesn't.  There may be some local policies at play in some locations, but there is no regulation prohibiting the consumption of alcohol in uniform.  There are a host of other regulations against being a jackass, but they're not necessarily uniform dependant.  No, there is nothing inherently wrong with having a drink in a public place in uniform, provided it is legal to have a drink there in the first place and that you don't do something stupid.

Hi folks.  Long time lurker here.  Just got around to registering. 

I have registered explicitly for the purpose of responding to that comment above.

Am a former MSEO.  I completed my training and contractual obligations, then left to work for an engineering company.  I have worked at various firms over the last 23 years (yes, it has been that long since I wore a uniform).

While there may be no rules against you having a beer at lunch, I will say that it makes you look ridiculous.  It shows you don't take your work seriously or your career seriously.  There are very, very few people I know (mostly engineers, engineering technicians and labourers) who would ever even consider having a beer at lunch.  Drinking is absolutely frowned upon by anyone whose job requires important decisions, operation of equipment or supporting operations.  At most work sites, drinking at lunch will get you fired. 

I have been to gatherings where there are, say, 100 people present (all senior engineering types).  All are drinking water or pop, except for four guys in uniform in the corner who are drinking beer.  They were the laughingstock of the meeting (but everyone was too polite to point this out).

So here's a lesson guys:  to be taken seriously, stop drinking at lunch.  It is not cool.  It is not generally a good idea.  It makes you look like an amateur. 
 

mariomike

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The post above is about non-CAF employers, so I will add mine.

No comment on the RCN "Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy" and traditions, as I never served in the RCN.

stoker dave said:
At most work sites, drinking at lunch will get you fired. 

Drinking was a firing offence at my former work site.

"No employee will report to work, consume while at work, have in their possession, or respond to a call while under the influence of any type of alcohol or drugs.

No employee shall purchase, have in their possession or consume alcoholic beverages while in uniform."

The second sentence applied to conduct off-duty, if in uniform.
 

Pusser

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stoker dave said:
Hi folks.  Long time lurker here.  Just got around to registering. 

I have registered explicitly for the purpose of responding to that comment above.

Am a former MSEO.  I completed my training and contractual obligations, then left to work for an engineering company.  I have worked at various firms over the last 23 years (yes, it has been that long since I wore a uniform).

While there may be no rules against you having a beer at lunch, I will say that it makes you look ridiculous.  It shows you don't take your work seriously or your career seriously.  There are very, very few people I know (mostly engineers, engineering technicians and labourers) who would ever even consider having a beer at lunch.  Drinking is absolutely frowned upon by anyone whose job requires important decisions, operation of equipment or supporting operations.  At most work sites, drinking at lunch will get you fired. 

I have been to gatherings where there are, say, 100 people present (all senior engineering types).  All are drinking water or pop, except for four guys in uniform in the corner who are drinking beer.  They were the laughingstock of the meeting (but everyone was too polite to point this out).

So here's a lesson guys:  to be taken seriously, stop drinking at lunch.  It is not cool.  It is not generally a good idea.  It makes you look like an amateur.

Little judgemental don't you think?  Having a drink makes you a laughing stock?  Really?  I can understand excessive drinking being a problem, but having a drink at lunch is not inherently bad.  Consumption does not equal drunk or unable to think clearly.  If the civilian engineering world is really that judgemental today, then it has really changed a lot.  There was a time when every executive had a stocked bar in their office.
 

mariomike

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Pusser said:
There was a time when every executive had a stocked bar in their office.

:)
 

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NavalMoose

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stoker dave, here's a lesson for you...if you want to be taken seriously, don't preach to professionals in an organization where it seems you did the minimum required, got some paid education, saw a few places and then left.  Well done to you if things worked out ok for you, but the condescending tone is not necessary.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Some work sites don’t let drink at all, some allow a certain amount at times, generally after hours. When your work site is also your home for 6 months, then it’s a bit more complicated. Generally allowing a certain amount at specified times is way better than trying to ban it. Then you get people doing stuff like crack, so their system is “clean” for the urine test. Funny enough if you treat people like adults and intervene with good leadership with the people that can’t adult, then it’s way better than outright bans. There are times and places for outright bans, but far to many companies default to it because it’s easier than thinking, planning and having good leaders/supervisors.
 

Jarnhamar

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Pusser said:
Little judgemental don't you think?  Having a drink makes you a laughing stock?  Really?  I can understand excessive drinking being a problem, but having a drink at lunch is not inherently bad.

I'm inclined to somewhat agree with Stoker Dave.  No issues with grabbing a drink for lunch but I've found in in the CAF people will seem to almost have to make a showing of them drinking at social events.  Like it's bragging rights to have a table full of empties ordering 4 beer at a time and everyone around knows they're in the military.  Weddings and social evens with mil pers and civilians mixed lead to pretty good examples of this.

I'll draw on my non-existent psychology degree and say we, the CAF, cause this by making a huge deal of soldiers being dry then rewarding them with alcohol. So when adults in the military have an opportunity to drink at an event they jump in with both feet. 
 

Stoker

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Back in the day (early 90's) we used to have a canteen at DC DIV and at lunch hour buy a couple of beers and go fight fires. Today, I would say everything in moderation, if I was to go out at lunch and have a beer it shouldn't be a problem. It all depends what I have to do afterwards in regards to my duties.
 

SeaKingTacco

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I have personally witnessed German workers have a beer on lunch break, then continue on the job site.

So, it kind of depends on the culture. Alcohol is neither inherently good nor bad.
 

mariomike

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SeaKingTacco said:
I have personally witnessed German workers have a beer on lunch break, then continue on the job site.

So, it kind of depends on the culture. Alcohol is neither inherently good nor bad.

I knew a guy who used to open an airline bottle of vodka at 0900. He mixed it with orange juice and enjoyed it as a breakfast beverage.  :)
 

George Wallace

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SeaKingTacco said:
I have personally witnessed German workers have a beer on lunch break, then continue on the job site.

So, it kind of depends on the culture. Alcohol is neither inherently good nor bad.

Whole different culture.  You get a beer with your meals in German Hospitals.  While we had a CFE, the German CE workers had it right in their contracts that they could have a beer with their meal and coffee breaks.  You actually seldom saw any really drunk Germans anywhere; except on the day when they had finished their Compulsory Service in the Bundeswehr  [cheers]

I think many of our problems actually date back to the landing of the Puritans at Plymouth Rock and then the arrival later of religious sects that demonized alcohol as they spread throughout North America.  Not even the French and Scottish influences could stop their ideals.  Europe, Central and South America, etc. never saw anything like the years of Prohibition that North America saw.

Looks like we have the 'Tea Toddlers" now in power and instead of breeding adults educated in the use of alcohol, they are treating everyone as a child who needs to be saved from sin.

History can be very cyclic if we don't learn from it.
 
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