Re-Enrollment, 6 month waiting period?

[Mushroom]

I've been getting a lot of mixed information from the staff at my local recruitment office (though I'm sure that's not a surprise to anyone) So I'm hoping I can come to you guys and let the dust settle.

I failed the CF Express Test when I went to my BMQ, I was released from the CF and told by my release officer that it wasn't a big deal, I could reapply once I got home despite the news from a former instructor that I would have to wait 6 months to reapply, the release officer told me plain and simple that " There is nothing black and white that says you have to wait 6 months to reapply, the policy refers to the fact that it could take up to 6 months to be re-coursed" He was of course then backed up by a fellow release officer who told me the exact same thing.  So naturally,  knowing how long it takes everything to get done in the CF, I wanted to reapply knowing I couldn't get merit listed before April 1st (when the jobs open back up)  and that since St.Jean has been so back logged I wouldn't get re-coursed till most likely sometime in the Fall which was confirmed last week when I spoke with a recruiter that simply said, 'St.Jean is still back logged, but come April were going to take applicants to go in September" 

Naturally when I got home and went to the office to reapply, I had recruiters look at me like I was nuts and again told me I would have to wait 6 months,  upon explaining what the release officers had told me, they set up a meeting with the commander to discuss the issue, whom then told me, I was fine to apply in April, but to keep a training log of my workouts to show them I was 1) Making progress and 2) Not reapplying just to fail again. 

I called today to see how my application was going, only to have no one know who my file manager is which started the process of transferring me around the office until my previous file manager picked up the phone and told me I had to wait 6 months to reapply since I was released because I failed my PT test,  she went on to tell me that if I had voluntarily released I wouldn't have to wait the 6 months.

So now I'm really confused. I have release officers from St. Jean telling me I don't have to wait, and I mean they should know right? all they do all day is handle releases and my recruitment centers commander telling me I could come back in April, but now i have the actual person handling my file trying to tell me otherwise so my question to you guys (finally I know) is When your released from the CF for failing the express test, do you have to wait 6 months to reapply?

Also,  My release was classified as a 5D, which on the paper they gave me, explanes it as " Not Advantageously employable : This is an Administrative release. The main reasons are, failure of course, administrative burden BEYOND member's control, lack of ability etc. "

 

[ArmyRick]

Can't tell you what the policy is regarding when you can re-apply BUT if you failed the Expres test, then let me offer you some kind words of wisdom.

Maybe you should consider getting yourself into a decent level of physical fitness first (since it seems your going to be waiting anyways). The CF expres test is very easy (I passed it several years ago while on medical category) and if you can not negotiate that, then BMQ is going to be too much for you.

Right now, truth be told, the CF has pick of the litter when it comes to hiring people. There are probably 3 people applying for every job availible (My guess not a fact).

What part of the expres test did you fail? How many attempts at it did you get? Were you provided any remdial PT between test?

 

[Mushroom]

I failed because of the pushups, When I was practicing them I thought I was getting low enough but the PSP staff said I needed to get about an inch lower but I mean  After being told month after month ( literaly from last june right up to December) I had to wait till april to get coursed i slacked off on my training..a lot, I got a call at random and was told I had 2 weeks to get ready to go( of course they called me two weeks after telling me I had to wait till april..again) I went to my BMQ and passed the other 3 tests without any issues and did above what was expected but because of a single pushup I was sent home,  before I even got off PAR I could do 4 which was enough to stay on course and as I sit now waiting on what Im suposed to do I can do whats required in the fitness test to full standard.  Im plenty fit , not to mention if I got recoursed right now, it would be a course that started in the fall which means I would have another 6 months to prepare even more to go. 

I have to speak with the commander again on Monday,  I was just hoping someone would know the policy for sure so that I was atleast somewhat prepared for the encounter.

 

[George Wallace]

Four pushups?

Surely you jest.

 

[Mushroom]

Look, guys I know it's ridiculous I failed, I wasn't nearly as prepared as I needed to have been and even though lack of notice isn't a reasonably defence its what I've got.  I'm trying to get back on track. Is four pushups a lot? No, but its an improvement from what I could do, and considering that it only took just over a week or so to go from 1 to  4 i think its a fair improvement and obviously  I've improved more since then, so can we go a little easy on the ridicule?  I'm just trying to get back.

 

[jwtg]

I don't know your age or gender, but I would say you don't want to head back to basic until you can blow the minimums out of the water- failing AGAIN might make a third shot quite difficult.

Sincerely- best of luck to you. Make sure those minimums (not the minimum threshold numbers, but the test standards) are easy.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Mushroom, George was just being cranky,.......keep working, do your best and see where the chips fall.

 

[Mushroom]

I can definitely meet the standard now. The only thing that gave me any kind of trouble was the pushups, everything else was a breeze and I can meet the standard of pushups required, which for girls is 2 to stay on course and 9 to meet the standard and I'm content to say I can meet the standard now on all 4 test. I workout 6 times a week (3 days cardio, 3 days weights) and have every intention of sticking with it until I can return to St.Jean, I'm definitely not going to do what I did before and slack off. But really guys,  If we can put my fitness aside and get back to the Policy?

 

[PuckChaser]

If you're not comfortable answering questions about your fitness, what are you going to do in the interview when you're asked why the CF should give you another shot? Its a legitimate question, we have recruits banging down doors to get in and you want another shot after not being able to complete course requirements once already. Your answer should blow them away.

As for the policy, the closest recruiting center is your best bet. If you don't want to leave the house, use the online recruiter chat or the 1-800 number. That's the most accurate answer you'll get.

 

[Mushroom]

It's not that I'm uncomfortable answering questions about my fitness, its that I specifically made this topic to find out about policy. Bantering about my level of fitness doesn't help me get anywhere when it comes to the question at hand.  I've asked my recruiters, as I stated before and I'm getting the run around, one recruiter says I don't have to wait, another says I do, the Captain says I don't, my file manager says I do, All I wanted to do was find out for sure one way or another so that when I sit down to have said interview I know for sure one way or the other.

 

[ArmyRick]

Honestly, lets deal with one fact. One big fact. Your physical FITNESS levels. Seriously, you made the 4 or whatever was required to stay on course? I got news for you, that is not fit, period. The actual CF expres test requires you to perform a minimum of 19 push ups (under 35 male) in a minute, with criteria as explained by PSP (depth, no resting, etc, etc).

The big point you are missing here and everybody is trying to tell you, is yes we need to discuss this physical fitness issue. I am not here trying trying to rain on your parade for fun, I beleive in being honest and letting people know where they stand. The big issue at hand here is your very low fitness standards, end story.

Your splitting hairs and going on about the re-entry policy, never mind. Right now the CF has pick of the litter because the demand to join is much higher than jobs availible. You have been given two chances to do this and have failed if I read your post correctly. The question any recruiter will have is "Why should you get another chance?" and their will probably be a follow on question "What have you done to improve your physical fitness?"

As far as meeting the minimums at week one or whatever, buds, do you realize that basic is sort of physically demanding? If your struggling on a few push ups, then doing alot of the task in the field is going to be murder on you.

My advice, take it or leave it. Take some time off, get yourself into good physical shape. Evauluate your potential future in the CF very seriously and think if the military is the right choice for you. After BMQ, depending on your MOSID, training can usually get tougher. Think about it very carefully.

One final question, were there any other issues that didn't help your cause? Was your attitude good? Did you ever argue with military or PSP staff? Did you ever get charged? Were you ever placed on any warning measures at all (Course or career)?

 

[PMedMoe]

The actual CF expres test requires you to perform a minimum of 19 push ups (under 35 male) in a minute, with criteria as explained by PSP (depth, no resting, etc, etc).

I don't believe the push up part of the test is timed, as long as they're continuous.  It's the sit ups that are timed.

The rest of your post is bang on.

 

[Mushroom]

Honestly, lets deal with one fact. One big fact. Your physical FITNESS levels. Seriously, you made the 4 or whatever was required to stay on course? I got news for you, that is not fit, period. The actual CF expres test requires you to perform a minimum of 19 push ups (under 35 male) in a minute, with criteria as explained by PSP (depth, no resting, etc, etc).

The big point you are missing here and everybody is trying to tell you, is yes we need to discuss this physical fitness issue. I am not here trying trying to rain on your parade for fun, I beleive in being honest and letting people know where they stand. The big issue at hand here is your very low fitness standards, end story.

As far as meeting the minimums at week one or whatever, buds, do you realize that basic is sort of physically demanding? If your struggling on a few push ups, then doing alot of the task in the field is going to be murder on you.

One final question, were there any other issues that didn't help your cause? Was your attitude good? Did you ever argue with military or PSP staff? Did you ever get charged? Were you ever placed on any warning measures at all (Course or career)?

Alright. I'm gonna restate some stuff I've already mentioned earlier.

I'm a female, the CF Express test requires me to be able to do 9 push ups to pass the test to the standard.  When I laid down to do my pushups I was able to pump out ten how ever the psp staff watching me  told me I wasn't getting low enough, I kept trying to get low enough but I just couldn't do it.  They moved me to PAR and I started working on getting lower and before I was even off PAR (about a week or so later) I was able to do 4 honest chest to the ground pushups which was an improvement and now that Ive been home a couple weeks , I'm at a point where I can can do enough to meet the standard for females and a couple more.

  As far as the other three test,  they went even an issue I did above and beyond what was required for females to pass, the only thing that gave me trouble was the pushups and I don't even consider them a problem anymore.  As requested by my capt. I have been keeping a training log so that when I sit down with him I can show him exactly how hard I've been working and the progress I've made with my strength training.

I had never been charged or warned, I didn't argue with the PSP staff cause I mean, whats the point?and I felt like I had a good attitude, didn't complain or anything. Do I think it was bad they asked me to leave st. jean? No.  They have standards there in place for a reason and I didn't meet them,  because I was sent home Ive been able to, and will continue to train directly for what there going to ask of me. Bottom line now is that I can meet the standards to stay on course and that's now, I have another 6 months to improve even more before I could get a course posting. My problem is that if they make me wait 6 months before reapplying all together , it basically guarantees that I will have try again next April since there only taking about 2000 people this year and only about 80% of the jobs are opening up so its kind of a big deal (at least to me) to find out if I have to wait this 6 months or not.

 

[PuckChaser]

My problem is that if they make me wait 6 months before reapplying all together , it basically guarantees that I will have try again next April since there only taking about 2000 people this year and only about 80% of the jobs are opening up so its kind of a big deal (at least to me) to find out if I have to wait this 6 months or not.

Like I said earlier, call the Recruiting Center, or the 1-800 number. If you're getting conflicting information, remember the persons name and clarify with the individual who is telling you something different. They'll go confirm.

Honestly, you continuing to post here on this issue is just going to keep getting you flamed. You had a very low PT standard to hit, and you missed it, despite a lot of time. Whatever those reasons are, the CF gave you a chance once and you wouldn't be waiting that 6 months to a year to reapply for a position if you had made the standard the first time. You'll find most CF members take physical fitness seriously, and your case may just be ammo for the people that want us to reinstate Expres testing BEFORE going to BMQ, instead of wasting pay/allottments/travel money for people who can't handle the job physically.

I'd let it go and just ask the mods to lock it, you're not going to win here.

 

[Scott]

No need to ask, I'm locking this.

Muchroom, you've been given sound advice, whether or not you liked the tone or content of it.

Puck Chaser's post is bang on and I suggest you heed it.

Staff