Really Cool Fitness Initiative

[Haggis]

I've had worse. Don't get a swelled head or anything, but you weren't the worst I've had. Or been had by, as the case may be.

... I think we're straying again (not in a biblical sense, though)

The idea of paying Class "A" Reservists to do PT is, in my opinion, off base.  We pay Reg F and Reserve Class "B" and "C' members, give them access to the best equipment and time away from work and we still don't get the required/desired results.  (Doubt this? drop by the NDHQ remedial PT class someday.)

What we need is MOTIVATION, GUIDANCE and REWARD.

"Motivation" comes from making training physically and mentally demanding to the point where you don't  truly enjoy it unless you are fit.  It also comes from having fit and intelligent leaders who know how to set the bar and raise it when appropriate.

"Guidance" comes from the fine folks at CFPSA, fit and competent NCOs and Officers (not egotistic gazelles, but really competent and mature leaders) who provide advice, tips and, above all, act as role models.

"Reward" comes from seeing something tangible for your effort, be it a GPS from the Association  or a coveted slot on Basic Para.

 

[orange.paint]

"Motivation" comes from making training physically and mentally demanding to the point where you don't  truly enjoy it unless you are fit.  It also comes from having fit and intelligent leaders who know how to set the bar and raise it when appropriate.

I believe PT should be challenging but attainable first.Allow the personnel to enjoy the pt,therefor wanting to improve.I've seen PT that was geared towards the top 3 pers where only the top 3 guys finished (destroys morale and thus motivation).And have seen PT that was geared towards the bottom 3 where it is not benefiting 80% of the group and embarrassing the bottom 3.PT IMHO should always be a personal thing done alone.Only you know how to improve yourself.Although I could say lets beast the bottom 3 till they quit.We have to look at these pers as potential fit soldiers and work for them IF they show the want and desire to improve.

"Guidance" comes from the fine folks at CFPSA, fit and competent NCOs and Officers (not egotistic gazelles, but really competent and mature leaders) who provide advice, tips and, above all, act as role models.

I believe these "egotistic gazelles" are more or less aggravated at the current system,and sick of those who cannot help themselves when all opportunity's are provided for them to improve.
....I wouldn't know any of these people...wait I try to emulate them.I don't believe fitness has anything to do with ones career,at least where I work.Egotistic gazelles (or springboks);these guys also instruct civilian side to meet like minded people,and organise base wide fitness programs to BENIFIT other troops.Its all how you view things.Some may see Sgt soandso as a "Greek god" while others take note and follow suit.Its all opinion of what a soldier is to you.Some believe they are fit well turned out smart troops.While others think a pudgy smart guy does just as good etc.And I believe it all stems back to who you emulated,and who you promised yourself you would never become.

"Reward" comes from seeing something tangible for your effort, be it a GPS from the Association  or a coveted slot on Basic Para.

Rewards are rare in the army.Fitness is rarely looked at in compar assion to "time in" etc.I could give example of obese people placed on courses that fit guys would kill for,only cause they had more "time in".This is where a good SNR NCO steps in,and a good troop mcpl recommends who he thinks will complete the job better/reward hard working troops.

What were the results of last years testing?Or the top test results?

 

[17thRecceSgt]

It isn't a reserve problem its a army problem.

Heck, I'll take that one step further.  Its a CF problem.  And the CDS is trying to solve it.

August, the CLS came to LFAA for a conference, whatever it was called.  He, at some point in time during this period here, took all the attendee's out and did PT.

Last week was our COS Conf.  Guess what the COS did?  Took all the attendee's from all our sub-units and lead them on PT.  First one I have seen them do that.  Should have always.  It seems the CLS is leading from the front in support of the CDS direction, and the teen-agers are starting to do what Ma and Pa want.

Now, if only my CO would order all the Reg and Class B's onto our BFT training, well.  While the new additions wouldn't be smiling Tuesday with their rucks, TVs and helmets on, I know me and few others sure would be.

Its a CF problem.  And it won't change over night.  BZ to those doing their part as leaders to change it.  Creativity like Haggis's is just what the doctor ordered for the Res side, where our own policies are whats holding us back.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Seeming this girl who originally posted seems to be from the west nova scotia regiment in Aldershot,maybe someone else from the unit can shine light on the topic?If its even true.

Maybe I'll give up working out and claim my Inuit blood has me fattening up for the cold months and Ill be slim by spring.

I am good friends with the WNSR Trng WO, I see him at the Stad gym every Sunday.  So, by Sunday, I should be able to confirm.

However, I do know the CO of that unit, and he is ex-PPCLI ( I believe he was a Maj when he left the Reg's) and a no nonsense type.  I could see that CO backing a plan like that, and the obvious and "army politics" reasons why.

 

[Haggis]

What were the results of last years testing?Or the top test results?

I don't have the results here at home, but the winner in the run category knocked over 2 1/2 minutes off his time.  The push-up winner added, IIRC, 18 reps.  The overall winner of a brand new high-speed Garmin GPS didn't have the best score in everything (he tied in two categories) but had 100% attendance at regularly sheduled unit training plus addtional points for filling "above and beyond" tasks.

The coolest things about this is that the troops were pretty keen thoroughout (you'd see them running/rucking around the city) and not a dime of "training" money was spent to make this happen.

On the subject of rewards, the four soldiers with the best attendance in the first half of the training year (Sep to Dec) were awarded sweet seats to an Ottawa Senators home game, plus parking passes, donated by our new honouray LCol.

 

[dglad]

I don't have the results here at home, but the winner in the run category knocked over 2 1/2 minutes off his time.  The push-up winner added, IIRC, 18 reps.  The overall winner of a brand new high-speed Garmin GPS didn't have the best score in everything (he tied in two categories) but had 100% attendance at regularly sheduled unit training plus addtional points for filling "above and beyond" tasks.

The coolest things about this is that the troops were pretty keen thoroughout (you'd see them running/rucking around the city) and not a dime of "training" money was spent to make this happen.

On the subject of rewards, the four soldiers with the best attendance in the first half of the training year (Sep to Dec) were awarded sweet seats to an Ottawa Senators home game, plus parking passes, donated by our new honouray LCol.

I applaud this.  You're very fortunate that your unit has the support of a proactive and, obviously, well-off HLCol and others, as well as access to a major sporting venue, attendance at which would certainly be a high-value prize.

But what about the small unit in rural Canada somewhere, whose HCol may be a retired Mayor on a municipal pension and is located hundreds of kms from the nearest NHL fanchise?

I, too, offered local (and non-publicly funded) incentives for fitness and attendance for class A Reservists as a coy comd and CO.  But they're not the solution and, in fact, their existence only highlights the problem.  Our soldiers system-wide deserve a fair and accessible way of becoming and remaining fit.  Until that's provided, the ONLY such incentive is that a soldier must meet a certain, minimum standard of PERFORMANCE (generally expressed as IBTS).  Fitness is one aspect of that, but so is attendance at training, knowledge of the trade, general mil skills, and so on.  If any of these are lacking, it constitutes a performance issue and can/should be dealt with administratively (see my earlier post about Bloggins and his C6).  That approach is something we CAN enact across the system, now, until something more comprehensive comes along.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

My solution would be:

Everyday at a certain time (concensus needed to find when most people can attend) LT/CAPT stands outside designated armouries and takes roll call.People work out for 1 hr,supervised and get paid.

Theres also that problem with class A guys getting compensation when working out alone.So there is my idea to solve this.

It all sounds a little weird to me,more info needed.

Won't work. Many have to travel more than an hour round trip. For 1 hr training? Many have school, work shift work, etc. An organized 1 hr PT session is doomed to failure before it starts. Also, why a Lt/ Capt?

 

[Haggis]

I applaud this.  You're very fortunate that your unit has the support of a proactive and, obviously, well-off HLCol and others, as well as access to a major sporting venue, attendance at which would certainly be a high-value prize.

My OC and I were quite willing to cough up for a prize until the, at that time"soon-to-be", honourary stepped forward without being asked.

But what about the small unit in rural Canada somewhere, whose HCol may be a retired Mayor on a municipal pension and is located hundreds of kms from the nearest NHL fanchise?

Every unit has SOMETHING nearby!  It doesn't have to be an NHL game, and for the record we are over 100 km from ScotiaBank Place.  (Even big city units have similar problems.  Who would really want to go to a Leafs Game? :warstory   It just has to be something that appeals to the troops.A stock car race?  Rock concert?   Why not grab corporate sponsors (hit up your chamber of commerce)?

I, too, offered local (and non-publicly funded) incentives for fitness and attendance for class A Reservists as a coy comd and CO.  But they're not the solution and, in fact, their existence only highlights the problem. 

True.

Our soldiers system-wide deserve a fair and accessible way of becoming and remaining fit.

But at the expense of what else? Range time?  PLQ vacancies?  Not in my Company, sir!  Why?  Because I and my officers, WOs and NCOs beleive strongly that physical fitness is the ONE SOLDIER SKILL that is 100% within the soldier's ability to improve witout the need for any fancy equipment, facilites or specialized training and supervision.

Until that's provided, the ONLY such incentive is that a soldier must meet a certain, minimum standard of PERFORMANCE (generally expressed as IBTS).  Fitness is one aspect of that, but so is attendance at training, knowledge of the trade, general mil skills, and so on.  If any of these are lacking, it constitutes a performance issue and can/should be dealt with administratively (see my earlier post about Bloggins and his C6).  That approach is something we CAN enact across the system, now, until something more comprehensive comes along.

Hopefully the release and implementation of DAOD 5023-2 (Physical Fitness) will go a long way to encouraging and protecting Class A Reservists to do good, gainful PT.  Until then we in the Chain of Command must continue to improvise, adapt and overcome this obstacle.

 

[orange.paint]

Won't work. Many have to travel more than an hour round trip. For 1 hr training? Many have school, work shift work, etc. An organized 1 hr PT session is doomed to failure before it starts. Also, why a Lt/ Capt?

It could be any member IMHO,but leaders lead and I just put those ranks down as examples.(Usually its the TP WO who runs PT.)

I also suggested earlier maybe a consensus would be needed to find out when the most people could attend.Lets face it,in the world of A class reserves no one can guarantee time off from civilian jobs/school every night.Sometimes planning for ARCON months in advance poses its problems.

I personally don't agree with the "witness" idea posed by the original poster.It is a corrupt system waiting to happen.Organise something with local gyms as in a check in register.
One extra days pay earned from this "work-out fund" could easily pay for gym fee's for at
least 6 months.

Why not take these funds and buy troops membership to local gyms?

I Know that if the CO of the armoured school said "I got a pocket full of cash here,if you and your buddy work out sign this form and receive money."Amazingly every troop would be working out EVERY night,and somehow not getting in better shape.

Unfortunately to perform this excellent initiative not all personell will be able to be involved.It has to be organised,it has to be closely monitored.Besides a register at a local gym or a roll call of sorts I personally don't see it working.

disclaimer: It's not directed at class A guys,I just personally don't see it working due to human nature in general.And from experiences with regular force soldiers.

 

[muskrat89]

Why not take these funds and buy troops membership to local gyms

I've been out of the "system" for awhile, but advocated this, even way back when. I understand that perhaps the funding is not available now, but maybe this is what the Reserves need to push for. Part of the deal with local health clubs could be an attendance record, sent back to the Unit. In addition, most of those clubs provide a trainer as part of the cost, so the workout would be surpervised to a degree. They also offer a wide variety of options.

There's a ton of potential incentives as well, from (hypothetically speaking) tax breaks to patriotism. I think it just needs so creative thinking and effort to work out a good system.

 

[GAP]

Something could be worked out with the local Gym so that their membership payments could be tagged to actual attendance. Could be a real boost in business for the Gym.

 

[dglad]

But at the expense of what else? Range time?  PLQ vacancies?  Not in my Company, sir!  Why?  Because I and my officers, WOs and NCOs beleive strongly that physical fitness is the ONE SOLDIER SKILL that is 100% within the soldier's ability to improve witout the need for any fancy equipment, facilites or specialized training and supervision.

We're in 100% agreement here.  There is absolutely NO way that, within the constraints of 37.5 days of training per year, we can provide meaningful fitness training to class A soldiers.  What I was suggesting wasn't formal fitness training inside the class A training envelope, but the ability for our soldiers to get and remain fit outside of it.  Your next point:

Hopefully the release and implementation of DAOD 5023-2 (Physical Fitness) will go a long way to encouraging and protecting Class A Reservists to do good, gainful PT.  Until then we in the Chain of Command must continue to improvise, adapt and overcome this obstacle.

...speaks directly to that, and I hope it is the systemic solution I'd like to see.  Frankly, I don't think we can afford the class A time a real fitness regimen would cost; we'd have to at least double the 37.5 days.  But how about support for the Chain while "improvises, adapts and overcomes"?  How about, instead of having to hit up the Senate, Honouraries, or the OC's bank account to provide incentives, the system provides something?  Liability coverage for class A soldiers while they do fitness training on their own time would be a huge benefit even if it comes without actual pay, as would some sort of subsidy for access to a gym, etc., but some incentives for simply being fit (other than the performance hammer I described earlier) would help even more!

 

[ZipperHead]

I personally think that this is a good initiative. Going with the "somebody might abuse it" line of thought would doom everything to failure (treat soldiers like soldiers and they will act accordingly; treat soldiers like children and they will act as such). Reward those that use this opportunity to improve themselves, nail anybody who is caught abusing it to the wall, and see where it goes.

People shouldn't have to be "bought" to do what should be a part of military service, but one would argue that anybody who is getting paid (i.e not a true volunteer) is being bought to do their job.

Now, onto hammering those amongst us (Reg Force and Class C Reservists) who aren't taking the opportunity that they have been given to get into shape (being paid 24/7 and liability covered), and aren't taking it seriously.....

Al

 

[54/102 CEF]

I searched these posts for what the Brit Reserves do - a demanding skill at arms including fitness test. Haven`t seen it myself but a number of our unit from Trail BC went through it at Shornecliffe a few years back. Bag drive. Once it was over - the checks are issued. In Sep 2003 when we snagged a trip to Manchester to the Royal Green Jackets camp at Preston - all the reserves were looking for a instant teller machine to deposit their performance pay = BOUNTY.

$2500 - I am not smoking wacky tabaccy here.

That said - I suggest CF Reserve go to a bounty system IMMEDIATELY! That way the pressure is on to parade - trian - remember - be efficient and STAY IN SHAPE physically, soldierly etc.

Next time I see Rick having a smoke at NDHQ I`ll bring it up.

 

[Haggis]

Next time I see Rick having a smoke at NDHQ I`ll bring it up.

You do that.  And also tell him this has to be "new" money, not taken out of existing budget allocations or found through a reduction in ammo/training days/POL/maintenance/admin/etc. etc as is the usual method of funding unforecasted Reserve "initiatives".

Be sure to come back and tell us how it goes.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

The idea of assisting with gym memberships is a good one.  The college I went to in PEI had a Coporate membership that was paid for out of the Student Union.  You showed your Student ID, and they let you in.  The only "restriction" was the number of college students allowed in at one time ( I think it was 30). 

I believe my old unit has a membership like this in the city that covers all the Reg Frce and Class B people...why not just extend that?  Show your military ID, in you go.  Too easy?  Except for the funding.  If your CO is a butter ball himself, will he pay for this or will there be another Mess Dinner?

Like I said earlier, in my Bde, if you don't have a current EXPRES test passed, you don't get Class B anymore.  Period.  Those fatties-bum-batties who can't pass the EXPRES test who are already Class B will be put on remedial PT and all the normal stuff. If they can't pass, they will be done.  That should be motivation to start "sweatin' to the oldies"  ;D.

About time.  In all honesty, its about time.  I was at the my current unit 3 years before I was fitness tested.  :

Now let's bring in the policy where all people in CLS units HAVE to do the BFT.  Out of our entire staff, only 16 of us are doing it.  Call that...25-30% of our staff?

 

[nawk]

Last year our unit recreated a running club.  Anyone could come down a couple hours before the parade night started.  We'd go for a group run for an hour or so and instead of getting paid a half day we got a full days pay.  We also got paid to enter in certain races such as the 8km Harry's run for prostate cancer and the Mississauga Marathon.  Of course it helps to have a super-motivated PT god for a sergeant-major (MWO McIntyre).  We also have entered a soccer team in a rec league.  We pay for this out of our own pockets but it's good, fun PT.

 

[54/102 CEF]

You do that.  And also tell him this has to be "new" money, not taken out of existing budget allocations or found through a reduction in ammo/training days/POL/maintenance/admin/etc. etc as is the usual method of funding unforecasted Reserve "initiatives".

Be sure to come back and tell us how it goes.

You`re on. He`s got more surprises for you on what you mentioned. Anyone in LFAA using AIME?

 

[Journeyman]

I keep coming back to this one line - - best one in the whole thread!

physical fitness is the ONE SOLDIER SKILL that is 100% within the soldier's ability to improve witout the need for any fancy equipment, facilites or specialized training and supervision.

Yes, I'm aware of the lack of fitness facilities in remote locations and the liability involved in getting injured. That's the nature of remote locations. As for injury, that liability is deemed acceptable by many non-military civilians who manage to exercise despite the risk of injury and their civil employment.

In my mind, I can rationalize paying Reserves an extra half day's pay (or whatever amount) because it's just another aspect of training - - weapons' handling, law of armed conflict, personal fitness - - they're all part and parcel of being a trained soldier. In most units I've been with (RegF), opportunity to work-out is "provided" (read - you will be on the parade square at 06:45 for PT). Comparing Reg & Res in this is clearly apples/oranges.

Of course, getting back to Haggis' quote, I choose to see it as a lifestyle issue because that's more acceptable to my male ego than admitting that if I didn't run, my g/f would kick my ass. 

 

[Haggis]

You`re on. He`s got more surprises for you on what you mentioned. Anyone in LFAA using AIME?

Surprises?  Cool!  I love some of the surprises that have come out of NDHQ (like garrison dress, the LSVW, the wholesale elimination of domestic Class "C", LFRR,  Reserve pension... oh, wait.  We're not supposed to know about that one yet.).

I'm not from LFAA.  What is AIME?  Is that like a CPR doll?