Reconstitution

[Edward Campbell]

My guess is that he was talking about abandoning ROTP for pilots.

Probably ... but I wanted to get that off my chest.

The entire "production of officers" (never mind leaders, that's too much to contemplate) process is totally and completely:

... and the only solution is, probably, to hire our friend Kat Stevens to demolish the whole thing, and clear the field for a new start.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

No ... abolish the Military Colleges. Make ROTP like the UNTD and COTC of decades ago: you, if you are fit, have no criminal record and under the age of 25, get your tuition books and fees paid and a stipend for living expenses IF:

1. You are doing academically well (slightly better then just a bare pass) in a programme that the CF actually needs (i.e. not gender studies);​

2. You appear, at least once a week and one week-end a month for military training; and​

3. You pass your (well paid) summer phase training courses.​

​

Those who do 1, 2 and 3 for the requisite four years will be offered either:

a. A short service commission (60 months) with a firm commitment that the CF will train you to deck, platoon/troop command or wings standard in less than 18 months. In other words, you get useful training and, eventually, 3+ years of "work" to put on your resumé and the possibility (say 50%) of being offered an intermediate (15 more years during which you MUST earn (through as mix of examinations and performance) the rank of Cdr/LCol) and, maybe, later (25% of the surviving Cdrs/LCols) a long service (to age 57) commission with the prospect of Capt(N)/Col, Cmdre and Adm/Gen; or​

b. A commission into a Naval reserve division or an Army reserve unit - and the country, we assume, benefits from your "free" education.​

Before you abolish the Military Colleges, just let me know first. I want to make sure I get into my school of choice for my Masters before everyone think I printed my degree from the internet

 

[dapaterson]

Before you abolish the Military Colleges, just let me know first. I want to make sure I get into my school of choice for my Masters before everyone think I printed my degree from the internet

You mean like a retired 3* who proudly hung his pay to play MBA in his I Love Me wall?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Ideally you don’t want to be so under-staffed that you’re on the brink of collapse, but here we are so I propose we should look at solutions that aren’t quite ideal but sill have a positive impact.

There's a really poor understanding of how to manage limited resources, in much of the CAF that I've seen anyways.

In some businesses it's easy to figure out who to fire first because departments that are always asking for more people (because they suck at project management and basic leadership skills) probably need a new boss

 

[FJAG]

No ... abolish the Military Colleges. Make ROTP like the UNTD and COTC of decades ago: you, if you are fit, have no criminal record and under the age of 25, get your tuition books and fees paid and a stipend for living expenses IF:

1. You are doing academically well (slightly better then just a bare pass) in a programme that the CF actually needs (i.e. not gender studies);​

2. You appear, at least once a week and one week-end a month for military training; and​

3. You pass your (well paid) summer phase training courses.​

​

Those who do 1, 2 and 3 for the requisite four years will be offered either:

a. A short service commission (60 months) with a firm commitment that the CF will train you to deck, platoon/troop command or wings standard in less than 18 months. In other words, you get useful training and, eventually, 3+ years of "work" to put on your resumé and the possibility (say 50%) of being offered an intermediate (15 more years during which you MUST earn (through as mix of examinations and performance) the rank of Cdr/LCol) and, maybe, later (25% of the surviving Cdrs/LCols) a long service (to age 57) commission with the prospect of Capt(N)/Col, Cmdre and Adm/Gen; or​

b. A commission into a Naval reserve division or an Army reserve unit - and the country, we assume, benefits from your "free" education.​

100% in favour.

Go a step further and create a similar program for NCMs where we pay the tuition etc for community colleges for vital trades like mechanics, heavy truckers, construction engineers, paramedics, cooks etc; use the summer to convert their training to a military environment and then two or three years of regular or reserve service. That way they'll have their civilian and military ticket stamped from the getgo. Betcha you'll grow a group of really dedicated and fully trained reservists that you can call on when you need them.

 

[daftandbarmy]

100% in favour.

Go a step further and create a similar program for NCMs where we pay the tuition etc for community colleges for vital trades like mechanics, heavy truckers, construction engineers, paramedics, cooks etc; use the summer to convert their training to a military environment and then two or three years of regular or reserve service. That way they'll have their civilian and military ticket stamped from the getgo. Betcha you'll grow a group of really dedicated and fully trained reservists that you can call on when you need them.

The huge irony is that the CAF is providing strong incentives to its members to do your time in the military, and then retire (after 6 or 12 years) with a pile of cash to spend on upgrading your skills in areas like those you've just listed.

https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/education-and-jobs/back-to-school/education-training-benefit

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

The huge irony is that the CAF is providing strong incentives to its members to do your time in the military, and then retire (after 6 or 12 years) with a pile of cash to spend on upgrading your skills in areas like those you've just listed.

https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/education-and-jobs/back-to-school/education-training-benefit

It's almost like some of us have the ability to plan .

At this point I tell everyone to use it (the CAF) for what it's worth and then take advantage of the entitlements

 

[mariomike]

Go a step further and create a similar program for NCMs where we pay the tuition etc for community colleges for vital trades like mechanics, heavy truckers, construction engineers, paramedics, cooks etc; use the summer to convert their training to a military environment and then two or three years of regular or reserve service. That way they'll have their civilian and military ticket stamped from the getgo.

Regarding that,

That is when the PCP qualified Med Tech appeared in the Reg F. We (at the coal face) knew from the very outset that it was just not sustainable for a variety of reasons. PCP was seen as the one qual that was accepted (mostly) across Canada, allowing our pers to be posted, or employed on DOMOPS without too much difficulty. Reality was very different though, as has been noted above.

Medics requiring to maintain a license

Doctors created a system where doctors hold higher rank and are in charge. DGHS during Rx 2000 was Lise Mathieu...who was not a doc, but HSO via RN IIRC. The "Surgeon General" was Scott Cameron, a mere Colonel then...whose 4 rings stacked up were as tall as he was. Much like in civilian...

army.ca

 

[futurepensioner]

To me this sounds like an "manage expectations" exercise.

Troubles seem to be brewing around the world. When/if it finally blows up, Canada will have an out:

"Sorry we would really like to help, but we are in a "rebuilding phase". Hopefully we will be in a position to make the playoffs next year"

 

[NavyShooter]

The RCN Specifically redesigned our training years ago for the Technical Trades under the mantra "TRAIN FOR THE FLEET NOT THE STREET".

In the 90's the NET and NWT trades were basically 1 credit short of a civilian technologist's diploma at the QL5 level. (Missing a fluid power course and a physics respectively) and at the QL6B level, the civilian accreditation organization in NS (Tech Nova or SCTNS) granted equivalency - all you had to do was pay the $250 a year for their membership.

Then things changed...that was deemed to be 'cadillac' training, and was apparently enabling too many sailors to jump ship after training to civvy street, so it was changed...and the courses were adjusted.

The last time the Civ group did an informal review of the W Eng Trade, they stated that they were not going to do a formal review, otherwise they'd go from 36 out of 37 credits, to less than 10 in terms of equivalency.

From my perspective, the RCN's dumbing down of technical trades knowledge and skills at the same time as the Halifax class get older and older is not a great plan. I recall the work we had to do on steamers to keep them going as they neared the end of their lives - skilled technicians made that possible. Now, the skilled technicians reside in the FMF's, and the state of the ships reflects how limited that resource is.

(Once upon a time, a LS NWT was trained to spin a lathe and manufacture replacement parts of the ship's gun. In 2015, I couldn't find a single machinist on the ship, including the MSE side, who was able to produce a 2" long threaded, shouldered locking stud for the torpedo bridge crane.)

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

To me this sounds like an "manage expectations" exercise.

Troubles seem to be brewing around the world. When/if it finally blows up, Canada will have an out:

"Sorry we would really like to help, but we are in a "rebuilding phase". Hopefully we will be in a position to make the playoffs next year"

True,....but all we can offer right now is the best men and women in the world. But that doesn't stop bullets, missiles,......

Mind you we'd go down knowing we finished a whole mess of woke online courses.

 

[markppcli]

The huge irony is that the CAF is providing strong incentives to its members to do your time in the military, and then retire (after 6 or 12 years) with a pile of cash to spend on upgrading your skills in areas like those you've just listed.

https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/education-and-jobs/back-to-school/education-training-benefit

I will never stop telling anyone I meet that works in Ottawa that the easiest way to strengthen the reserves / retain skills in the CAF is to amend this policy. I have multiple friends who’ve gotten out as Sgts and WOs, they are good instructors with tons of course and over a decade of experience, surely they would be a massive boon to any reserve unit they joint. That goes double for any of the techs we loose to the oils field after their second contract, imagine if they stayed in the reserves because they were being compensate for doing upgrades in their skills civie side? Simply put Let soldiers with 6-12 years access that program if they stay in the reserves so we aren’t loosing millions in training dollars.

 

[KevinB]

There are 24/7 sections that are required, but not Pri 1.

Roger I get that. The question I was answering at the time was Priority 1 though.
Very few entities have legitimate non deployed 24/7 requirements of dedicated (non revolving) staff.

 

[Kilted]

I will never stop telling anyone I meet that works in Ottawa that the easiest way to strengthen the reserves / retain skills in the CAF is to amend this policy. I have multiple friends who’ve gotten out as Sgts and WOs, they are good instructors with tons of course and over a decade of experience, surely they would be a massive boon to any reserve unit they joint. That goes double for any of the techs we loose to the oils field after their second contract, imagine if they stayed in the reserves because they were being compensate for doing upgrades in their skills civie side? Simply put Let soldiers with 6-12 years access that program if they stay in the reserves so we aren’t loosing millions in training dollars.

It would be nice if they would actually give the reserves the money they promised them for educational reimbursement, instead of shutting the program down for four years because "there was no money in the budget." They did reopen it recently and I applied for it, was excepted, but told that I needed to apply on the new ILP platform and then told that I missed the deadline to apply when I applied on the new platform.

 

[kev994]

I will never stop telling anyone I meet that works in Ottawa that the easiest way to strengthen the reserves / retain skills in the CAF is to amend this policy. I have multiple friends who’ve gotten out as Sgts and WOs, they are good instructors with tons of course and over a decade of experience, surely they would be a massive boon to any reserve unit they joint. That goes double for any of the techs we loose to the oils field after their second contract, imagine if they stayed in the reserves because they were being compensate for doing upgrades in their skills civie side? Simply put Let soldiers with 6-12 years access that program if they stay in the reserves so we aren’t loosing millions in training dollars.

I did a release interview not long ago, member was leaving to pursue their Masters, would have done Class A except that it would cost them $80,000.

 

[markppcli]

It would be nice if they would actually give the reserves the money they promised them for educational reimbursement, instead of shutting the program down for four years because "there was no money in the budget." They did reopen it recently and I applied for it, was excepted, but told that I needed to apply on the new ILP platform and then told that I missed the deadline to apply when I applied on the new platform.

It’s not just the reserves. ILP is underfunded, and is not an absurd program that only reimburses for 1 course each month, ie it has to begin in that calendar month. Which is obviously just not how schools work.

 

[Furniture]

Roger I get that. The question I was answering at the time was Priority 1 though.
Very few entities have legitimate non deployed 24/7 requirements of dedicated (non revolving) staff.

That's fair.

I happen to be from an organization that is 24/7, but not pri 1, not even 3, maybe somewhere near pri 32... until the OpsO learns that they won't have a TAF for their airfield.

 

[kev994]

That's fair.

I happen to be from an organization that is 24/7, but not pri 1, not even 3, maybe somewhere near pri 32... until the OpsO learns that they won't have a TAF for their airfield.

The organization I was thinking of was the SAR units. A lot of the positions it takes ~a year, sometimes substantially more, to train someone to be operational but they’re holding a line number the whole time, so even if they’re fully staffed (and they aren’t) there’s still not enough people to fill all the scheduling holes, and it’s not an option to just not do it.

 

[Kilted]

So holding a giant Canadian Flag and singing the anthem at the Blue Jays is considered a critical task?

 

[dapaterson]

So holding a giant Canadian Flag and singing the anthem at the Blue Jays is considered a critical task?

Look, did anyone invade or attack Canada while the CAF did that? Clearly, the deterrent effect was successful.