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Reg force Vs Reserves bashing thread

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Jarnhamar

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I bet this gets shit canned fast :)

[rant]
We really need to stop the bitching between regular force and reserves. It's pathetic.
Everyone always tries to play nice and act cool. Everyone always tries to be civil and righteous and take the upper road and spout off how everyone is green and we all do the same job bla bla bla but we are always ready to bring up an example how the 'other team' has shit pumps'. Everyone tries to act mature but can quickly point out an example of stupidity from the other side (I'm just as guilty of this). We try to nod our head and take the upper road but we like to point out the other teams shortcommings.

The regular force will point out how unprofessional the reserves are or under trained they are. "Their not as good as us".  How atrocious their level of physical fitness are. How stupid it is that a res soldier will make corporal in 2 years and a reg will take 4 years. The big difference in training.  This much is obvious.
A reservist will try and lord over the fact that they have college or university and try to make regular force soldiers seem dumb. They talk about the "job" being a hobby and attack some reg soldiers for having their grade 10 or being happy with spending their whole life in the army.

The problem with you, me and everyone else is that EVERYTHING is about comparison. Comparing the regular force level of fitness to the reserves. Comparing the level of training, level of maturity, level of life experience (which I'm guilty of). Shooting skills, ranks, time in, training and outlook on life.  You're comparing apples and oranges.  Ya their both fruits but their different fruits.

Regular force soldiers feel better about themselves by pointing out how their not like reserves. Reservists feel better about themselves by pointing out how their not like regular force soldiers. It's retarded.  I always got a laugh out of hearing a certain line of thinking.  A reservist would say he enjoys doing whatever and reg would say 'if you like it that much than join the regs!'.  You know, it's alright for someone to want to be a reservist. Enjoying "playing army" on week-ends and summers doesn't mean anything other than someone enjoying being a part time soldier.
Likewise someone enjoying doing the army thing as a career doesn't make them any better or worse than someone choosing to spend 7 years fucking around with university. Because someone is "checked out" doesn't mean they need to join the full time army.

The biggest problem with the regs and reserves in the CF is that they try to compare themselves to one another when they simply shouldn't. It's stupid and when people try to compare the two it's simply a mater of trying to boost ones self esteem.  Their different monsters, get over it.

I'm practicing aikido and one of the things I like most about it is that there is no competition. There is no sparing because akido is about reacting to someone trying to hit you. It's not about competing but reaching a personal level of excellence and understanding.
Two "aikidoists" would sit there and look at each other in a fight waiting for the other guy to do something.  We need to take the same approach in the CF. We need to stop trying (in vain) to compare practices in the full time regular force with the part time reserves with the CIC. Everyone has their own thing to do.
We try to compare ourselves to one another to make ourselves feel better or look better which is garbage.

There are complete idiots in the regs who you wouldn't trust with a pair of scissors from McDonald's and there are super soldiers who perspire professionalism.
There are guys in the reserves who are dirty scumbags and there are guys who rocked their jtf assaulter's course.
Stop worrying about other people and worry about yourself.
In the words of a certain recce platoon warrant from the regs, put your guns away.
[/rant off]
 
There are good and bad in every bell curve - ignore the bad and study the good.
 
Guys and gals

Let this end please...

I have been both and regret neither.

Slim
 
hello: I was formerly in both reg and reserve forces - too many years ago - and seen i guess the best and worst of both. I'm now 49, and live and teach in Poland - quite near a Polish army divisional headquarters. What is striking here is the almost complete separation of the armed forces from every day society - They do very little community interaction. There are many problems in the Canadian Armed forces but compared to here - there is far more community  interaction - the Armed forces of Canada are more part of the Canadian community and Canadian identity and this involvement in the community lies mostly within the presence of the reserve forces. in other words having the reserve forces strengthens the nation. Reg Force members should remember this. the communal face of the Canadian Armed Forces is mostly  a Reserve one. Strengthen the reserves, and you strengthen the regular force.
 
Like a certain RegF Recce type Guy said in another thread.

I thought we were all Green.

We all wear the same flag. and the good troops regardless of Element, Trade, or Component, all work to be professional, and competent in their job.

petty infighting only weakens the brotherhood that we in the military have.

C'mon guys, at the end of the day we're on the same team.

 
Complaining is easy.

Criticising someone is usually employed to distract everyone else from observing your own shortcomings

Are you part of the problem or will you contribute to the solution?
 
I wonder if the US reg and reserve elements go through this all the time too...  ::)
 
I've talked to a few guys I know in the NG down south. They told me there is some bashing but mostly trade bashing. They all know that they are required to do the same job. The few Full timers I've talked to said they have no problem with the RES or NG as they always allow for the Regs to have some down time. About the training they receive, the NG train only one weekend a month Res not sure on their training times and the NG also serve one month as well during the year. Now in the REs Up here I was in on Tuesday nights and every second weekend, so Friday night till Sunday and was gone most summers but this is not required of all that are in.
:warstory:
 
In the Marine Corps, we don't hear very much reserve bashing if any at all.  We all go through the same boot camp and the same MOS schools.  The only difference is that reserve Marines train one weekend a month and a few weeks in the summer.  Having said that, reserve Marines also go to war as they are regularly mobilized for the current operations.  When they are mobilized, they deploy as a unit and not necessarily as augmentation to deploying units, although some do.

I think the entire experience of boot camp helps to forge the Marines into one identity.  A Marine either attends boot camp at Parris Island or San Diego.  In my experience in the CF, there seemed to be a lot of animosity toward reservists because they didn't get tortured in Cornwallis etc.....of course these were regular force soldiers who were posted to a 10/90 unit at the time, so you can understand part of their frustration.  I remember feeling inadequate as a reservist because we were often surrounded by these types of people, even some of the retirees coming into the unit.  Now in retrospect, I can honestly say that some of these Militia Hating Cornwallis allumni would have probably not made it through Parris Island...so much for having felt inadequate eh...

PJ D-Dog
 
LW.... Reserves in the US and Canada are two different animals. Can't compare.

The Govt does not intend to use em in the same way.... and consequently does not train em or fund em the same way.

Most reservists are highly motivated, well educated individuals who require time to fill in intentional gaps in their training (Hey.... it wasn't their choice). Overall, reservists are effective - given the chance. They also bring "non military" capabilities that their Regular brothers don't have a clue about. (eg: Reserve Engineer Cpl with a Civil Engineer's degree - he's in it for the fun of it all)
 
Keep it on track folks, further tangents will be split off and/or deleted. Inter-personal banter will be handled the same way.
 
I think PJ D-Dog has come the closest (IMO) to explaining the root of a lot of the animosity: the lack of shared experience. In other words, the common Parris Island style boot camp for reserves and regular force.

When I went through Cornwallis, my section commander left early (posted) towards the end of basic and was replaced by a MBdr. We started asking the MBdr what it was like in Shilo (for Arty Battle School, as there were a bunch of guys going Arty). "I don't know" was the response. We were kind of surprised. "What do you mean MBdr?" He didn't go through Shilo. Nor Cornwallis. Even us green as grass troops knew there was something wrong with that situation. Personally, I don't think that it is right to have somebody instructing recruits, especially at the CF Recruit School, who has never gone through the very system that they are now teaching at.

If there were to be a more common recruit training process, which is impractical, if not impossible in a country as large as Canada (especially with our caviar tastes, and Kraft Dinner military budget), I think that a lot of the animosity would be lost. The further that a soldier goes in their training, there are more opportunities for Regs and Res to be training together, but it has actually decreased (in my recent experience here at the Armd School) as opposed to the (long ago) promised increase.

So the reality is that is a systemic failure, as opposed to individual soldier's failure. I have taught on a few Reserve courses, and I don't doubt that the majority of them have the enthusiasm and drive to do as well, or even much better than the average Reg Force soldier, but they are ham-strung by reduced training times and budgets (usually one and the same). A shit-pump Reg Force soldier and a shit-pump Res soldier are cut from the same bolt of cloth. It's just unfortunate that the shit-pump Res soldier is the one that Reg Force guys seem to end up seeing, and then use as an example of what is wrong with the Reserves.

Anyway, this thread is destined to be locked, but I think that PJ hit the proverbial nail on the head.

Al
 
"It's just unfortunate that the crap-pump Res soldier is the one that Reg Force guys seem to end up seeing, and then use as an example of what is wrong with the Reserves."

The same can be said for the opposite side of the coin as well. Some RSS punted to the P Res in the past were prime examples of what not to be and how not be behave. Fact is, there are wastes of flesh on both sides of the coin, you just have to look beyond the individual and the system that produced them sometimes to find the good ones

TM
 
banter, banter, banter.... lock it up, baby!
:warstory:
 
Yup, it always come down to the same conclusion, good and poor soldiers on both sides of the fence.  Done.
 
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