Remedial Measures DAOD 4019-4 [merged]

[Jarnhamar]

Too bad the reverse wasn't true.  Something in place that stops supervisors from coming up with arbitrary timings 30 minutes prior to the actual timing.

 

[ModlrMike]

I have to admit that for the sake of 30 minutes late I would want to know why. If he's just a bag of hammers, then charge him. If there's something else, it's just good leadership to investigate further.

Anecdote: I had a troop who was habitually late following deployment to Croatia. My boss wanted him charged. After investigating I found that his family life was falling apart because was the "go to guy" and was given 1-2 day taskings every few days so he was never home. Fortunately, we didn't charge him in the end and sorted out his tasking tempo.

 

[PAdm]

Anecdote: I had a troop who was habitually late following deployment to Croatia. My boss wanted him charged. After investigating I found that his family life was falling apart because was the "go to guy" and was given 1-2 day taskings every few days so he was never home. Fortunately, we didn't charge him in the end and sorted out his tasking tempo.

This is how it should be.  Well done.

 

[UnwiseCritic]

I concur, modlrmike you give me hope haha.

I have seen guys come in 20 - 30 minutes late after not having been late for the following two years. And were checked out guys and it just goes way over the top with some people and a n incident like that shouldn't be noted on a permanent basis. Good leadership will be creative and not take it too high. If he is a problem then obviously a different course of action will be necessary.

 

[medicineman]

I remember my CSM one crappy morning in Calgary after a deep freeze left my car unable to start and an hour long wait to get a cab to work made me miss an RSM's parade...(insert strong Newfie accent) "This is the first time this has happened, so I'll forget it - THIS TIME.  If it happens again, my memory will become very much clearer and this conversation won't go so well in your favour."  He never recovered from his Alzheimer's...and I never forgot that when I was a boss.  Of course, if the person was a habitual shytepump, well that's another story.

MM

 

[Towards_the_gap]

Or for a more creative solution.....the AEH challenge (anchorage earth holdfast).

Ingredients:
One tardy soldier.
9 AEH plates
72 AEH pins (2' long steel pins, look like needles for giants)
1 30t shackle
1 thumper (post-driver)
1 set, goggles, sun/wind/dust
1 pr, wiring gloves.

1. Ask your local combat engineer for a quick how-to on how to put it all together with said tardy soldier.
2. Find a nice piece of grass somewhere, 30m from hardpacked dirt (un-used gravel road, etc)
3. Lay out all ingredients above in an orderly fashion on grassy bit, lay out a 10mx10m square on the hard-pack.
4. Tardy Soldier (hereafter known as TS) dons goggles, wiring gloves
5. On command 'GO' start stopwatch.
6. TS must construct a full crowsfoot AEH set, in 20mins, moving 1 piece of equipment at a time from start area to dirt area 30m away, using solid end of thumper as your 'sledgehammer'.
7. If he is unsuccessful, strip it all out and try again.


One absolute legend of a royal engineer once did it all in 16mins. By 'did it all', I mean he built it AND stripped it out in 16 mins.

 

[SentryMAn]

We had a guy that was 1.5hrs late for duty once.  He was giving a drive to 2 other members from about 3 hrs away and one of them was a shytepump and "Didn't hear his alarm" after a hard night drink.

He got a $600 fine and extra duties.

 

[211RadOp]

I am glad I am on Ex right now.  I am having no difficulty filling my Sqn's fire piquet sched with people who have a hard time meeting timings.

 

[Wonderwall1313]

Thanks Jammer,

So if a member chose to go AWOL and didn't return until after their contract end date, they would most likely be held in custody on base until trial?

 

[cupper]

Or for a more creative solution.....the AEH challenge (anchorage earth holdfast).

Ingredients:
One tardy soldier.
9 AEH plates
72 AEH pins (2' long steel pins, look like needles for giants)
1 30t shackle
1 thumper (post-driver)
1 set, goggles, sun/wind/dust
1 pr, wiring gloves.

1. Ask your local combat engineer for a quick how-to on how to put it all together with said tardy soldier.
2. Find a nice piece of grass somewhere, 30m from hardpacked dirt (un-used gravel road, etc)
3. Lay out all ingredients above in an orderly fashion on grassy bit, lay out a 10mx10m square on the hard-pack.
4. Tardy Soldier (hereafter known as TS) dons goggles, wiring gloves
5. On command 'GO' start stopwatch.
6. TS must construct a full crowsfoot AEH set, in 20mins, moving 1 piece of equipment at a time from start area to dirt area 30m away, using solid end of thumper as your 'sledgehammer'.
7. If he is unsuccessful, strip it all out and try again.


One absolute legend of a royal engineer once did it all in 16mins. By 'did it all', I mean he built it AND stripped it out in 16 mins.

You just described a typical day in the field for Veh Techs on recovery training, except the part about dry packed ground.  :nod:

We never allowed the candidates to do anything without moving through at least 3 feet of mud and water. Unless it is winter. Try doing the same thing in frozen ground.

 

[garb811]

So if a member chose to go AWOL and didn't return until after their contract end date, they would most likely be held in custody on base until trial?

Probably not.  Even if the CF decided it was in the public interest to actually try them for an offence where (baring unusual circumstances) pers are released in abstentia after 6 months, a person would not be held in pre-trial custody simply because they had been AWOL.

 

[Wonderwall1313]

So, does that mean that if you were AWOL for 6 months, you could be automatically released? I didn't know about this...do you have any more info related to that? Thx

 

[garb811]

Trying to figure out if the Warrant is still valid for you or not?  Wander down to your local police station, tell them you're AWOL and see what happens.  If they arrest you, guess you're still in.  If they let you walk away, probably a pretty good bet you've been released.

 

[Wonderwall1313]

Not exactly, but definitely looking for information in that regard.

 

[garb811]

Well, not much more to say about that.  It's not a sure thing by any means, each situation is looked at on its own merits.

 

[211RadOp]

That is not AWOL, it is desertion.

88. (1) Every person who deserts or attempts to desert is guilty of an offence and on conviction, if the person committed the offence on active service or under orders for active service, is liable to imprisonment for life or to less punishment and, in any other case, is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to less punishment.
(2) A person deserts who

...

(c) absents himself without authority from his place of duty with the intention of remaining absent from his place of duty;
(d) is absent without authority from his place of duty and at any time during such absence forms the intention of remaining absent from his place of duty; or
(e) while absent with authority from his place of duty, with the intention of remaining absent from his place of duty, does any act or omits to do anything the natural and probable consequence of which act or omission is to preclude the person from being at his place of duty at the time required.
(3) A person who has been absent without authority for a continuous period of six months or more shall, unless the contrary is proved, be presumed to have had the intention of remaining absent from his place of duty.

 

[Towards_the_gap]

Once upon a time there was a widely circulated urban myth about a National Service deserter, now aged about 70 yrs old, who turns up to Brompton Barracks in England (home of the Royal Engineers), the same place he absconded from in the late 40's, and tells the Provost Sgt that he wants to turn himself in, he's felt bad about the wrong-un he did so many years ago and wants to clear his debt, so to speak.

He was given a cup of tea, and a tour of the barracks in the duty vehicle, while the Gd Shift 2IC knocked up a powerpoint certificate stating that 'having surrendered himself to the rightful authority of Provost Sgt B***** G****, 2122903 Spr J Bloggins has rightfully served 1 hour at Her Majesties Pleasure, and is now released in accordance with the Army Act 1955. Signed blah blah blah' with loads of official looking stamps 'IE GUARDROOM 1 RSME REGT' and 'BROMPTON BARRACKS'

 

[opcougar]

Good day all,

Getting conflicting responses from different folks. If a mbr was given an IC, and then put on a probational period for 3 months which they met, how long does it stay on mbr's personal file, and how does this affect any chances of promotion? Some people are saying it stays on for 5yrs then you need to get a pardon for it to come off?????

Someone said it's not like a charge, and no pardon is needed, because many people have done worse things and got promoted. Your thoughts on this please

 

[dangerboy]

If you have access to the DWAN look up DAOD 5019-4, Remedial Measures http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-5000/5019-4.page (DWAN Only). 

The IC stays on your file permanently the DAOD states:

7. Administration

Permanent Record

7.1 It is important that the CAF personnel record accurately reflect a complete history of the CAF member's service, conduct and performance.

7.2 All forms referred to in this DAOD and all correspondence indicating conclusion of a monitoring period shall be kept permanently on the CAF personnel record.

7.3 The NOI form, any documents disclosed to the CAF member and any representations made by the CAF member shall be placed on the CAF personnel record only if C&P is initiated.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

There is a completion memo/letter that gets imitated and placed on the pers file immediately before the IC