Remedial Measures DAOD 4019-4 [merged]

[opcougar]

Thanks, but what about the part about career progression limitations because of this???

If you have access to the DWAN look up DAOD 5019-4, Remedial Measures http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-5000/5019-4.page (DWAN Only). 

The IC stays on your file permanently the DAOD states:

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Career Implications
6.1 When C&P is initiated, a CAF member's eligibility for career opportunities is restricted. The following table sets out career consequences resulting from a remedial measure:

If the CAF member is on ... is the CAF member still eligible for ...
                                                                                              Promotion? career courses? posting? attached posting?
IC or RW,
                                                                                                Yes                Yes                  Yes              Yes

C&P,                                                                                          No                No(1)              No, except if (2):

Note – (1) There is no restriction on remedial IT&E courses meant to assist a CAF member who is on C&P to overcome a conduct or performance deficiency.
      -  (2) the posting or attached posting is for an operational deployment; or the DGMC determines otherwise.


EDITED TO ADD:

Just read this link: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-5000/5019-4.page

 

[Good2Golf]

Thanks, but what about the part about career progression limitations because of this???

Many a member with an IC *on their file have been promoted.  Counselling that has been taken to heart to address shortcomings is not necessarily a bad thing.

G2G

*corrected for spelling

 

[DAA]

IC's are a "permanent" record of "initial counselling" that has taken place for performance or conduct deficiencies.  They are mainly used for local level personnel management and don't go beyond the Pers File and or Unit Level.

For those that have been around for awhile, IC's are similar to "Div Notes", "Troop Leaders Note Books", etc, etc.  They are used as a means to address and correct problems before they result in career implications.  Prior to issuing anyone with an IC, the Pers File needs to be reviewed, to determine whether or not the problem has been identified in the past.

 

[mariomike]

Your thoughts on this please

Some here,

One IC on member's PERS are there serious career implications? can it be removed 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/114444.0;nowap

IC's and time 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/110314.0/nowap.html

 

[PanaEng]

Not bragging, far from it, but I got accepted in the UTPNCM program with a C&P on my pers file.
Some times is the kick in the ass some ppl need. (some times an a sect 129 of NDA may be preferred but that might have impacted the UTPNCM selection)

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I also have been on RMs and been promoted.  It doesn't HELP your chances but it isn't a career stopper in most cases either.

 

[Lumber]

Some people are saying it stays on for 5yrs then you need to get a pardon for it to come off?????

Whom ever is telling you this has no idea what they are talking about. All remedial measures (IC, RW and C&P) stay in your pers file forever. The remedial measure itself will not affect your promotion, but the underlying performance/conduct might.

Say you are place on initial counseling for a performance deficiency due to you frequently falling asleep while on sentry duty at the range. You might get a shitty PER at the end of the year not because you were placed on IC, but because you are a shitty sentry.

Cheers.

 

[geo]

Periods of being a good boy and obtaining a pardon relate to disciplinary measures not administrative ones.  Remedial measures are intended to help you overcome a problem - not punish you ( though you may not see it that way). If you get served with a remedial measure, you know what to do - improve, correct your shortcoming - and you'll be fine.

 

[MB44]

I was recently put under Remedial Measures for alcohol misconduct. There was a unit investigation but my chain of command has decided to give me a Recorded Warning. I am wondering what effects it will have on my career. I'm in the Reserve Force and I know not to screw up again. My superiors keeps telling me "not to lose sleep over it."

 

[Jarnhamar]

You can't drop a bomb like that and not tell us the story.

No it's not on your MPRR.
No it won't effect your career unless your chain of command is going out of their way not to promote you.

 

[dapaterson]

If there are future incidents, it may have an impact on your career.  A career review board will look at everything, and a history of misconduct would be a consideration of any decision to retain or release you.

The moral of the story?  Learn from it.  Don't do it again.  Don;t do other foolish things again.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

May as well have a read of the official policies in the event you already haven't...unless you're a Pte/Spr/Gnr/Tpr, you are at the very least a Jnr NCO and should become conversant with the policies, and where to find them, so you can answer these types of questions your subordinates might have and be better able to advise superiors about CAF policy and stuff.  Free PD.

DAOD 5019-4, Remedial Measures

DAOD 5019-7, Alcohol Misconduct

 

[MB44]

So seeing as how it is Protected B information, no one outside of the CF will ever know about it, would they? Who inside the CF will know?

 

[dangerboy]

So seeing as how it is Protected B information, no one outside of the CF will ever know about it, would they? Who inside the CF will know?

Your immediate chain of command for starters and after that anyone who accesses your personnel file as remedial measures stay in your file for the rest of your career. They are usually mentioned in PERs that you were placed on remedial measures, so anyone that sees this years PER.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Reporting on the Personnel Evaluation Report

6.3 A reporting officer may comment on a CAF member's conduct or performance deficiency in accordance with the policy as set out in DAOD 5059-0, Performance Assessment of Canadian Forces Members.


7. Administration

see attached pic

 

[ballz]

I am wondering what effects it will have on my career.

Bottom line up front, if you don't screw up again, somewhere between "none" and "sweet fuck all." The purpose of the remedial measures is it remedy your conduct or performance deficiency. If you respond well to it and overcome the deficiency, good on ya.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Flip side of the coin...this will stay on your Pers File forever.  If you get into shyte again and alcohol is involved...it will come into play.  10, 20 years from now. 

In some ways, a ST with a small fine is better than a RM.

 

[ModlrMike]

Flip side of the coin...this will stay on your Pers File forever.  If you get into shyte again and alcohol is involved...it will come into play.  10, 20 years from now. 

In some ways, a ST with a small fine is better than a RM.

True, but you can get an RM following a ST, so not that much better.

 

[Intantry]

Scoured for hours couldn't find a thing on this and would rather not go through every CF legal doc when i can find out the information here:
(Not trying to go on a witch hunt against my CoC just genuinely curious because this was a curve ball when it hit me)

So..long story short I managed to get some 'leave' under some untruthful circumstances, I got caught and was given a Recorded Warning with the outlined remedial and administrative measures within the document which I signed for with my 2IC, on my way out my SGM was like:

"oh by the way those leave days are coming out of your remaining annual."

...My question is; after understanding and acknowledging why the RW was given and signing for the remedial measures and courses of action that have been approved by the CO to rectify this conduct issue within the document, is my CoC able to give additional administrative or remedial actions that aren't outlined in the signed RW? (like take away my leave or dock pay or CB not additional duties or crappy taskings)

I have a couple colleagues that had the same thing happen to them where they received additional action against them outside of the signed IC, RW and C&P.

Another example is a colleague being 10 minutes late for duty because of traffic and getting an AWOL charge with 25% of their pay docked after the Initial Counseling was signed.

Again not going after my CoC just genuinely curious if this is a thing within other units where additional actions are given out outside of what was understood and signed for.

Thanks.