Replacement of Browning HP, Sig Sauer 225 begins

[medicineman]

It's a shame the CF is still stuck on stupid criteria which is are an obvious attempt to exclude certain pistols from the onset.

Sort of makes you wonder if they're actually interested in buying anything at all...just  the cynic in me coming out I guess.

MM

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I suspect it's more a lack of experiance in the people writing the criteria and to many cooks tossing in to many 'mandatory requirements".

 

[MJP]

Colin, years ago I had to suffer thru the PSWQ, as I had all the courses, but Eryx ( :facepalm: yeah I had to take a course for a 2 day Eryx class).  The Sgt who was teaching the pistol part was a buddy of mine for years - he was a student too (another Eryx victim) but he did not know the pistol if it ran him down, he lost a page of IA's and I had to explain it to him that he was missing some, this became a 35min lecture by me on how the pistol functions etc.
  Fortunately our section were all relatively older folks all stuck in the Eryx vacuum - and no one got bent out of shape that I ended up doing the pistol.  Having a ISCC, Small Arms Course etc does not immediately confer SME status on anything, and its not a slight on anyone to note they do not have the tools to teach something fully.

Ahhh yes That was an awesome course.  Of course the same thing happened for the 60mm mortar.  Well planned that course was...

 

[Ostrozac]

I suspect it's more a lack of experiance in the people writing the criteria and to many cooks tossing in to many 'mandatory requirements".

The truth.

If they were trying to cook the books to buy a specific pistol -- Glock 17 or Sig 226 or Beretta M9 or whatever, by now someone in this group would have figured out a pistol that actually meets the requirements. Instead it looks like they phoned the army, the MP's, and the boarding parties, asked each to email what their top 5 mandatory requirements were, copied and pasted them into a list of 15 -- and sent it out to the world. Without checking to see if such a weapon actually exists. Which it doesn't.

 

[NavyShooter]

Sounds like JSS in a micro sort of way....

Alas, the cost of procurement/testing/etc will far exceed the actual cost of the weapons themselves I suspect.

NS

 

[KevinB]

Ahhh yes That was an awesome course.  Of course the same thing happened for the 60mm mortar.  Well planned that course was...

I forgot you were there too.

Oh the Mortar segment -- I think I was stupider for most parts of that course, I know the Mortar, Pistol, Small Arms Coach, and Machine Gun all sucked knowledge from me rather than imparted knowledge.

But I was then Eryx qualified  :

 

[Colin Parkinson]

So Kevin was this you  ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZPOfwVhokI

 

[MeatheadMick]

I love that video... a little big for a BHP replacement

 

[jollyjacktar]

Thanks, for nothing.... Marcel Masse.  GD! What a fine, fine MND he was.  Those were the days.    :

 

[JorgSlice]

Seriously a 10mm? man what are they escorting grizzly bears? 

a long slide 10mm glock would be my choice for a sidearm in bear country, but it's a lot of gun for everyday carry and quite beamy in the grip.

I was quite surprised too! I guess when you need to punch through pick up trucks and body armour... lol

 

[DirtyDog]

In the grand scheme of things, carrying a pistol with two mags didn't add a whole lot to the weight of the stuff I was carrying; relative to the water, ammo, and other stuff.

The pistol was one of the first things I, and a lot of guys, ditched when we decided to had to start cutting weight from our loads.  It was a cost to benefit decision.

I brought it along when I thought I could afford the extra encumbrance, and it was always handy in the turret, but extended dismounted ops... it stayed at home.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Seriously a 10mm? man what are they escorting grizzly bears? 

a long slide 10mm glock would be my choice for a sidearm in bear country, but it's a lot of gun for everyday carry and quite beamy in the grip.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the 10 mm the metric equivalent of the .40 cal.? That makes it smaller than a .45 or .44, both pretty common calibres.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The pistol was one of the first things I, and a lot of guys, ditched when we decided to had to start cutting weight from our loads.  It was a cost to benefit decision.

I brought it along when I thought I could afford the extra encumbrance, and it was always handy in the turret, but extended dismounted ops... it stayed at home.

At least you weren't banned from carrying a pistol because it made you look like an officer or SNCO :

I still prefer to put up with the weight of a pistol and a few mags- a compact pistol would be ideal though.

 

[Snaketnk]

I brought it along when I thought I could afford the extra encumbrance, and it was always handy in the turret, but extended dismounted ops... it stayed at home.

In that case I'd totally agree with you. I kept my pistol on my rig, and we switched a lot between "extended dismounted ops (10+ hours)" and mounted ops; I wasn't about to start rearranging my rig from day to day; and it really didn't seem to add a lot compared to the other ammo I was carrying.

 

[a_majoor]

10mm is about the same diameter as a .40 round, but the terminology is different because the 10mm is 10X 25mm, while .40 is 10X 22mm.

The 3mm difference in cartridge case length may not seem significant, but the recoil of the 10mm was considered so powerful (especially for shooters with small hands) that the FBI (who had adopted it first) withdrew that calibre and went to .40 for their service pistols. Obviously the units still using 10mm are filled with manly men.

 

[KevinB]

The FBI who originally adopted the gun - ended up getting the 10mm ammo downloaded - to the spec's of what became .40S&W.
  10mm in its full loading is a lot of bullet -- usually better suited to the 10mm MP-5's that the FBI was using.

9mm with a good JHP loading no better or worse than the other big name calibers for terminal performance.  However for Mil usage where the use of JHP ammo has been decreed to be bad, then a large FMJ bullet is often preferable - one reason that the next US Mil gun will most likley be in .45ACP

In the grand scheme Canada is going to adopt a 9mm handgun and issue ball ammo to the GPF.
  Units conducting Law Enforcement or Anti/Counter Terrorism roles are not limited to ball ammo and the necessities of the Hague Convention

 

[DirtyDog]

At least you weren't banned from carrying a pistol because it made you look like an officer or SNCO :

Indeed.  I shudder to think....

 

[Jarnhamar]

I just had my hands on a Sig P226, what an awesome pistol.

I'm going to bet the CF in it's wisdom replaces our brownings with those  ;D

 

[MeatheadMick]

That it is OZ. I recently turned down the chance on owning a Sig Pro P2022 because for another 200 bucks I could get a P226

 

[KevinB]

Good guns - I never cared for Sig's DAO trigger, and I replaced my gun with the short trigger, but it take a lot of practise to get used to DA/SA triggers, and I was never that good as I was with a gun with a single trigger for a complete string - and especially a first round under stress.

  I still insist if I only had one handgun it would be a G19, its pretty much the perfect stupid persons gun -- pull gun, pull trigger, repeat as necessary, and reload, reholster.