Replacing the Subs

[Kirkhill]

Manta Ray - A long range glider. What the USN has been up to.

The United States has completed the first full-scale test at sea of a futuristic underwater drone able to hibernate on the seabed.

The Manta Ray prototype, produced by US aviation giant Northrop Grumman, is part of a US navy project to develop a new class of underwater drone capable of carrying out much longer missions.

The autonomous craft, which dwarfed the small boat it was pictured with, has been designed to move through the ocean “for very long periods of time” without supervision or the need to refuel.

“Once deployed, the vehicle uses efficient, buoyancy-driven gliding to move through the water,” said Dr Kyle Woerner, Manta Ray programme manager at the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, better known by its acronym, Darpa.

Defence analysts have speculated that the US navy wants to develop a drone capable of long missions to scour the seas for Russian and Chinese submarines.

“The craft is designed with several payload bays of multiple sizes and types to enable a wide variety of naval mission sets,” said Dr Woerner.

The craft is also capable of anchoring itself on the sea floor and “hibernating” in a low-power mode, according to Northrop Grumman.
It has also been designed to be easily transported around the world for rapid deployment.

The testing took place off the coast of southern California over the past three months.

Pictured: US tests futuristic new Manta Ray underwater drone

Prototype autonomous craft is able to hibernate on the sea bed and move through the ocean unsupervised for ‘very long periods of time’

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[suffolkowner]

The silent hunters: Deep dive into Singapore's submarines

A closer look at the evolution of the Republic of Singapore Navy’s submarines

www.straitstimes.com

Singapores new subs. Also another 4 used subs we could pick up

 

[Rainbow1910]

Portuguese Type 214 class submarine NRP Arpão recently did an under ice Arctic excursion in partnership with Denmark.

Submarino "Arpão" da Marinha Portuguesa opera ao longo de um agregado de 4 dias imerso sob o gelo do Árctico

Gronelândia 28 de Abril 2024 a 3 de Maio 2024 O submarino NRP "Arpão", S161, da classe "Tridente" da Marinha Portuguesa a operar na zona de ...

espada-e-escudo.blogspot.com

The NRP submarine "Harpoon", S161, of the Portuguese Navy's "Trident" class operating in the marginal ice zone of the Greenland Theater of Operations, on a mission that took it, from April 28 to May 3, 2024, on a 4-day aggregate in immersion under the Arctic Circle ice sheet. This mission takes place in the extended context of NATO's Operation "Brilliant Shield", on patrol in the North Atlantic and Arctic, over a total of 77 days, starting with the departure from the Lisbon Naval Base on April 3, 2024 and lasting until June 19, 2024.

In conjunction with the HDMS "Ejnar Mikkelsen" (P571), one of the 3 ocean patrol vessels of the "Knud Rasmussen" class in the service of the Danish Navy, since 2010, with specific assignment to this same Theatre of Operations, the NRP "Harpoon" departed on April 28, 2024 from the port of Nuuk, capital city of Greenland, autonomous territory under the sovereignty of the Kingdom of Denmark, heading north-northwest to cross, on April 29, 2024, the parallel 66°33′49.9" that geographically defines the Arctic Circle, about 300 km from Nuuk, in the Davis Strait.

The NRP "Harpoon" then performed a first deep dive, over 39 hours and 30 minutes, emerging in the Marginal Ice Zone (MIZ, the transition zone between the ice sheet and drifting fragmented floating ice) and proceeding to a second dive from which it would return to the surface on May 3, 2024 - then beginning the return to the port of Nuuk.

 

[YZT580]

Portuguese Type 214 class submarine NRP Arpão recently did an under ice Arctic excursion in partnership with Denmark.

Submarino "Arpão" da Marinha Portuguesa opera ao longo de um agregado de 4 dias imerso sob o gelo do Árctico

Gronelândia 28 de Abril 2024 a 3 de Maio 2024 O submarino NRP "Arpão", S161, da classe "Tridente" da Marinha Portuguesa a operar na zona de ...

espada-e-escudo.blogspot.com

4 days under the fringes of the ice does not make for any valid proof of concept. Interesting, yes but that is all

 

[Maxman1]

4 days under the fringes of the ice does not make for any valid proof of concept. Interesting, yes but that is all

The journey of a thousand miles starts with "I know a shortcut" one step.

 

[Stoker]

Manta Ray - A long range glider. What the USN has been up to.

View attachment 84867

Pictured: US tests futuristic new Manta Ray underwater drone

Prototype autonomous craft is able to hibernate on the sea bed and move through the ocean unsupervised for ‘very long periods of time’

www.telegraph.co.uk

Interesting and looks familiar.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Fortunately even the RCN knows that nuclear submarines are a terrible idea for Canada if we ever want to actually see them, and the word went out that anybody that floats the idea will be dealt with severely.

Nice to see a bit of actual sense for a change, as we'll already be hard pressed to replace the current conventional subs with new conventional subs, and the 8-12 seems like a severe stretch goal unless we just mercy kill the entire surface fleet.

 

[Rainbow1910]

Fortunately even the RCN knows that nuclear submarines are a terrible idea for Canada if we ever want to actually see them, and the word went out that anybody that floats the idea will be dealt with severely.

Nice to see a bit of actual sense for a change, as we'll already be hard pressed to replace the current conventional subs with new conventional subs, and the 8-12 seems like a severe stretch goal unless we just mercy kill the entire surface fleet.

If the RCN can stick to the idea that Topshee discussed about strictly adhering to an off the shelf design, I could see a high end procurement of 8 boats in a perfect world. I would say 6 is more realistic when 4 being worse case without scrapping the fleet as a whole.

 

[Stoker]

Fortunately even the RCN knows that nuclear submarines are a terrible idea for Canada if we ever want to actually see them, and the word went out that anybody that floats the idea will be dealt with severely.

Nice to see a bit of actual sense for a change, as we'll already be hard pressed to replace the current conventional subs with new conventional subs, and the 8-12 seems like a severe stretch goal unless we just mercy kill the entire surface fleet.

The people who I work with, ie actual submariners think 6 to 8, but really the determining factor is crew.

 

[Stoker]

If the RCN can stick to the idea that Topshee discussed about strictly adhering to an off the shelf design, I could see a high end procurement of 8 boats in a perfect world. I would say 6 is more realistic when 4 being worse case without scrapping the fleet as a whole.

The CRCN says a lot of stuff, he'll probably be posted soon.

 

[Navy_Pete]

The people who I work with, ie actual submariners think 6 to 8, but really the determining factor is crew.

I've heard the same from actual submariners as well; 6 to 8 gives the operational capability they want, but not sure how you grow from less then 2 crews to 8.

Across the board, crew is our limiting factor, and the cost for reduced crews in build and maintenance can be crippling. Sometimes not having a few sailors can add millions of dollars and hundreds of hours in extra maintenance a year to the design, so false economy. We had to fight to keep engineering roundsperson position for CSC, as the position is a basic mitigation and part of every single emergency response (on top of being generally really useful).

 

[OldSolduer]

I've heard the same from actual submariners as well; 6 to 8 gives the operational capability they want, but not sure how you grow from less then 2 crews to 8.

Across the board, crew is our limiting factor, and the cost for reduced crews in build and maintenance can be crippling. Sometimes not having a few sailors can add millions of dollars and hundreds of hours in extra maintenance a year to the design, so false economy. We had to fight to keep engineering roundsperson position for CSC, as the position is a basic mitigation and part of every single emergency response (on top of being generally really useful).

Ok crayon eater question:

Who actually commands the RCN? I know you have a CRCN but does some effing beancounter trail behind him to ensure he isn't going overbudget???

 

[Grimey]

Ok crayon eater question:

Who actually commands the RCN? I know you have a CRCN but does some effing beancounter trail behind him to ensure he isn't going overbudget???

I don’t think that bean counter exits.

As to who commands the RCN, I think it’s still the CRCN…but the position is influenced by a segment of senior RCN staff in Ottawa plus various civilian hanger-ons who filter the cold hard reality of the RCN’s daily struggle to stay relevant in order for the CRCN to keep his rose-coloured glasses on so he can make earnest pronouncements such as a 6-8 boat future sub fleet and keeping the CPFs operational until 2040. Topshee seems to be an exception and sees through the bullshit sold by this group.

You’d have to go back Ron Buck to find an equivalent CRCN who could see through the sold by his staff and who had the ear and trust of the average matelot.

 

[Stoker]

I don’t think that bean counter exits.

As to who commands the RCN, I think it’s still the CRCN…but the position is influenced by a segment of senior RCN staff in Ottawa plus various civilian hanger-ons who filter the cold hard reality of the RCN’s daily struggle to stay relevant in order for the CRCN to keep his rose-coloured glasses on so he can make earnest pronouncements such as a 6-8 boat future sub fleet and keeping the CPFs operational until 2040. Topshee seems to be an exception and sees through the bullshit sold by this group.

You’d have to go back Ron Buck to find an equivalent CRCN who could see through the sold by his staff and who had the ear and trust of the average matelot.

and don't forget he is the architect of our paid parking in Halifax.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If the RCN can stick to the idea that Topshee discussed about strictly adhering to an off the shelf design, I could see a high end procurement of 8 boats in a perfect world. I would say 6 is more realistic when 4 being worse case without scrapping the fleet as a whole.

Exactly. Who is going to crew them?
How many crew and support staff does one boat need? Genuine question.

 

[OldSolduer]

Exactly. Who is going to crew them?
How many crew and support staff does one boat need? Genuine question.

Yes that goes for the resident crayon eater here....

 

[Furniture]

and don't forget he is the architect of our paid parking in Halifax.

I wasn't aware he was the Treasury Board... free parking was deemed a taxable benefit in municipalities that charge for parking. Esquimalt doesn't pay, because the town doesn't charge for parking.

 

[Stoker]

I wasn't aware he was the Treasury Board... free parking was deemed a taxable benefit in municipalities that charge for parking. Esquimalt doesn't pay, because the town doesn't charge for parking.

At the very least millions of dollars were wasted putting in parking machines that lasted a year tops and actual money collected from sailors when it could of been a taxable benefit from the get go. It was a dissatisfier then and remains a dissatisfier now.

 

[Furniture]

At the very least millions of dollars were wasted putting in parking machines that lasted a year tops and actual money collected from sailors when it could of been a taxable benefit from the get go. It was a dissatisfier then and remains a dissatisfier now.

I'm sure the ORs would love the extra task of tracking who was and wasn't getting a taxable benefit, it's not like most are already understaffed and over worked...

Treasury Board said parking was a taxable benefit, the CAF chose the paid parking route across the CAF. Why would Halifax be given a special carve out?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I'm sure the ORs would love the extra task of tracking who was and wasn't getting a taxable benefit, it's not like most are already understaffed and over worked...

Treasury Board said parking was a taxable benefit, the CAF chose the paid parking route across the CAF. Why would Halifax be given a special carve out?

Treasury Board did not say it was a taxable benefit across the country.

It is only a taxable benefit where there is a viable commercial pay parking industry.

That clearly does not apply in Wainwright, Cold Lake, Petawawa, Esquimalt, Comox, Suffield, Edmonton, Dundurn, Shilo and probably a dozen other locations.