Replacing the Subs

[Czech_pivo]

Germany has added to their Type 212CD order, bringing the order book for type to 12 (Germany 6, Norway 6). Of interesting in the article was the statement that Germany should have 5 active submarines at all times, which suggested a fleet size of 15 (using a 3:1 ratio). Either way, if Canada was to join, we'd have some commonality with two NATO partners (presumably we'd be buying the slightly larger 212 CDE version, but that shares much with the 212 CD), so no "orphan fleet" concerns. Question is if there is capacity to get us the first boat by 2035.

Four Type 212CD Approved As Germany Increases Order

The German Parliament as part of a funding splurge on defence has approved an additional four Type 212CD submarines for the German Navy.

www.navalnews.com

thyssenkrupp Marine Systems

www.thyssenkrupp-marinesystems.nl

Always interesting to see countries like Germany or Norway that have coastlines similar or smaller than BC's entire coast obtaining more of a particular naval asset that us. We certainly should be obtaining a 12 at a min if Germany is getting 6.

Highly doubt that they have the bandwidth to add another 12 subs to their production line and meet both our requirement of an operational boat by 2035, produce another 11 for us and then meet their own timelines.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Germany has added to their Type 212CD order, bringing the order book for type to 12 (Germany 6, Norway 6). Of interesting in the article was the statement that Germany should have 5 active submarines at all times, which suggested a fleet size of 15 (using a 3:1 ratio). Either way, if Canada was to join, we'd have some commonality with two NATO partners (presumably we'd be buying the slightly larger 212 CDE version, but that shares much with the 212 CD), so no "orphan fleet" concerns. Question is if there is capacity to get us the first boat by 2035.

Four Type 212CD Approved As Germany Increases Order

The German Parliament as part of a funding splurge on defence has approved an additional four Type 212CD submarines for the German Navy.

www.navalnews.com

thyssenkrupp Marine Systems

www.thyssenkrupp-marinesystems.nl

Here's an interesting piece of info from the article -

"According to German defence media Hartpunkt NATO-goals entail a minimum of five German submarines available for operations from 2031. Applying the usual rule of thirds this figure implies up to 15 German submarines in service overall. However, availability-definitions likely include some slack allowing for fewer boats to meet the objective. The desired timeframe and total figures however raise questions over the German Navy’s ability to come true on stated intentions."

The German shipbuilder recently opened a brand new submarine production facility in Kiel which Naval News was able to tour earlier this year. Two parallel production lines would facilitate an acceleration in fielding the additional boats desired by both Germany and Norway. Whether production can ramp up quickly enough to allow the German Navy fielding five operational submarines by 2031 remains to be seen. TKMS is also pursuing sales opportunities for Type 212CD in Canada, Poland and India, although Naval News understands the focus with Delhi is on Type 214NG. Additional foreign orders would add further demand for increased production capacity.

 

[Underway]

I think they will get the Polish contract. That sub is ideal for the Baltics.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I think they will get the Polish contract. That sub is ideal for the Baltics.

The Baltic is going to be a very very packed place with all these subs being added to it. Its kind of like adding more and more fish into an aquarium. There are only so many that can be added into the aquarium without stressing out all the other fish and using up all the available oxygen/resources.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Can we say CAUKUS? Or maybe ACUKUS? Or what about USACUK?

This was a very interesting point.......

“There are opportunities for us to procure a lot of the go-forward military equipment, like the submarines from the United States. And certainly, we are open to that as part of the broader conversation,” said Wilkinson during an interview in Washington.

Canada floats defence purchases and critical minerals alliance to deter Trump tariffs​

Canada floats defence purchases and critical minerals alliance to deter Trump tariffs

Energy minister calls trade tensions a ‘distraction’ from China’s rising economic and military power

www.ft.com

 

[OldSolduer]

Can we say CAUKUS? Or maybe ACUKUS? Or what about USACUK?

This was a very interesting point.......

“There are opportunities for us to procure a lot of the go-forward military equipment, like the submarines from the United States. And certainly, we are open to that as part of the broader conversation,” said Wilkinson during an interview in Washington.

Canada floats defence purchases and critical minerals alliance to deter Trump tariffs​

Canada floats defence purchases and critical minerals alliance to deter Trump tariffs

Energy minister calls trade tensions a ‘distraction’ from China’s rising economic and military power

www.ft.com

Grasping at straws. Good Lord just accept the inevitable, the LPC is a disaster and it’s sinking fast. Rearrange those deck chairs FFS.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Whatever we might be purchasing from the Americans as it won't be submarines . The Americans having issues with their build rate.
As the Australians are finding out.

 

[YZT580]

Whatever we might be purchasing from the Americans as it won't be submarines . The Americans having issues with their build rate.
As the Australians are finding out.

quite possible if the libs have a say. Just think, they can make a commitment to a purchase that is at least 2 decades from fulfillment. Tallk about kicking the can down the road, puts you back in line with your allies and only costs you a few man years

 

[KevinB]

Whatever we might be purchasing from the Americans as it won't be submarines . The Americans having issues with their build rate.
As the Australians are finding out.

It isn't actually the built rate - but the USN's acquisition rate that has bottlenecked things. No one gets long lead time items when orders are not confirmed - now all of a sudden the USN wants more boats after delaying on the VA's (so much that Congress made them take more boats this and last year than they wanted). There are a lot of things afoot here in the USW arena, and the Primes have bought up a few yards and subcontractors to greatly expand their abilities to put boats into the water.

 

[CountDC]

Start WW3, that should ramp up production. WW2 worked. Amazing how slow everything becomes during peace time. Almost like no one really wants to invest in the military.