Replacing the Subs

[Good2Golf]

Name them the "freedom" class

HMCS Sovereign
HMCS Dominion
HMCS Independent
HMCS True North
HMCS Confederation

Etc...

HMCS Elbows Up

 

[Rainbow1910]

I will disagree with the assessment that it is to fraught with difficulties. I suspect it requires just a bit to much work for some people, who are to lazy or cowardly to do it. Many of the tribes/bands are proud of their warrior past and would love to be associated with a new and powerful class of warships. Put the right people in place to do the consultations and you will get a lot of support and competition for the use of their name.

This is what I have gleamed from @FSTO speaking on this elsewhere on the forums, but there was a variety of issues at hand that made the committee go another direction with the CSC. I do not think its ultimately fair to say they are cowardly or lazy, but some hills aren't worth dying on for what you ultimately get back from the namesakes. These issues don't just disappear and I don't see that changing here.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

That was purely a land battle where as Incheon had a significant amount of naval action as well

Understood. But we named three ships of the Halifax class after cities (Regina, Calgary and Winnipeg) that are all landlocked. So, what not naming a sub after a land battle?

 

[calculus]

Sucker, Chub, Chubsucker, Hog Sucker, Minnow and Mummichog are great choices.


I have heard exactly the opposite, that there is a large Korean slant especially with some of the ITB packages we are being offered. Topshee personally touring both Korean yards publicly but seemingly not doing the same for any European yards seems pretty obvious. The Europeans realistically either have sub-par vessels, sub-par builders or not enough yard space to fulfill our orders, so I find the potential preference rather moot myself. NATO should be happy of force expansions, regardless of who is it purchased from.

I hope you are correct, but these were the musings of a fairly senior Navy friend, who admittedly is not directly linked to the CPSP, but is in the world of naval procurement. Also, while Topshee himself has not visited every yard, staff at the CPSP have.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Sucker, Chub, Chubsucker, Hog Sucker, Minnow and Mummichog are great choices.


I have heard exactly the opposite, that there is a large Korean slant especially with some of the ITB packages we are being offered. Topshee personally touring both Korean yards publicly but seemingly not doing the same for any European yards seems pretty obvious. The Europeans realistically either have sub-par vessels, sub-par builders or not enough yard space to fulfill our orders, so I find the potential preference rather moot myself. NATO should be happy of force expansions, regardless of who is it purchased from.

How much push back, grief is Poland getting for buying SK main tanks,/SP howitzers instead of British, French or German?
And I'd like to point out, they didn't just buy 150 or 250 or even 400 tanks - they bought just under 1,000 + another 670 howitzers -

KOREAN TANKS FOR POLAND

by Arda Mevlütoğlu

www.defenceturkey.com

 

[Rainbow1910]

I hope you are correct, but these were the musings of a fairly senior Navy friend, who admittedly is not directly linked to the CPSP, but is in the world of naval procurement. Also, while Topshee himself has not visited every yard, staff at the CPSP have.

Given how religiously rigid Canadian procurement typically is to being "open and fair", it comes off to me as very strange that the head of the RCN specifically took time out of his schedule to publicly tour only one out of many bidders in a very important contract. If that isn't a sign, I'm not sure what is.

 

[calculus]

Given how religiously rigid Canadian procurement typically is to being "open and fair", it comes off to me as very strange that the head of the RCN specifically took time out of his schedule to publicly tour only one out of many bidders in a very important contract. If that isn't a sign, I'm not sure what is.

It does seem significant, I admit. I thought I'd read somewhere that he'd also visited some yards in Japan last year. Do we know for certain he hasn't visited others?

 

[OldSolduer]

Sucker, Chub, Chubsucker, Hog Sucker, Minnow and Mummichog are great choices.

That better have the clone of Mary Ann as its Captain. And Ginger as the Exec

To Add - I would willingly volunteer to serve on that sub

 

[Rainbow1910]

It does seem significant, I admit. I thought I'd read somewhere that he'd also visited some yards in Japan last year. Do we know for certain he hasn't visited others?

Yes, I do recall hearing about him visiting the Japanese yards however, Japan publicly declined to bid and departed the process fairly quickly. The Europeans have some pretty substantial media presence around their domestic defense industries, I find it hard to believe that everybody collectively missed the highest ranking RCN officer doing a publicity tour.

If he did visit the other yards as well but none of those were made public, I think that is another sign of preferences lol.

 

[Furniture]

I will disagree with the assessment that it is to fraught with difficulties. I suspect it requires just a bit to much work for some people, who are to lazy or cowardly to do it. Many of the tribes/bands are proud of their warrior past and would love to be associated with a new and powerful class of warships. Put the right people in place to do the consultations and you will get a lot of support and competition for the use of their name.

Who is the Tribe do you talk to? What do you do when various parts of the tribe disagree? Is the juice worth the squeeze? Tribal class names are perhaps best left in the history books.

Given the number, maybe they'll name them after the provinces and territories, with the land based trainer getting the 13th name, kind of like what they are doing with the RCDs.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Who is the Tribe do you talk to? What do you do when various parts of the tribe disagree? Is the juice worth the squeeze? Tribal class names are perhaps best left in the history books.

Given the number, maybe they'll name them after the provinces and territories, with the land based trainer getting the 13th name, kind of like what they are doing with the RCDs.

Band council and hereditary Chiefs would be the people you approach. Get the right people there and it would go positively. I have seen a lot of positive consultations and Bands are looking at ways to promote themselves and their heritage. You start quietly approaching them with big announcements and find out how each band would want to do it.

 

[Kirkhill]

Who is the Tribe do you talk to? What do you do when various parts of the tribe disagree? Is the juice worth the squeeze? Tribal class names are perhaps best left in the history books.

Given the number, maybe they'll name them after the provinces and territories, with the land based trainer getting the 13th name, kind of like what they are doing with the RCDs.

Lots of tribes/first nations. Few ships.
Put up a lottery and see who bites.

 

[lenaitch]

Band council and hereditary Chiefs would be the people you approach. Get the right people there and it would go positively. I have seen a lot of positive consultations and Bands are looking at ways to promote themselves and their heritage. You start quietly approaching them with big announcements and find out how each band would want to do it.

Like Six Nations, where the elected band council and hereditary hate each other and each claim to be to the exclusive legitimate voice of the Nation.

What about the Metis? Or the Inuit/Dene?

I agree that the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

Here be dragons.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

A lot of that is around revenue sharing agreements and who gets to control the cash, that is the whole beef with the Wet'suwet'en over coastal gas link, the Band Council gets the revenue sharing agreement, not the hereditary Chiefs who are backing the protesters. However there are 630 FN bands in Canada, just avoid the troublesome ones.

 

[OldSolduer]

Lots of tribes/first nations. Few ships.
Put up a lottery and see who bites.

How about this;

None of them.

 

[KevinB]

HMCS Smoke and Mirrors.

I’ll believe you’re buying subs when one actually arrives.

 

[DBNSG]

We will never get the 12 subs in time if we buy German subs - it will be a disaster for us.

But not for a future Liberal government. They are intending to craft any future commitments on the hope, prayer, wish that the World goes back to pre Feb 2022. Sign a contract but be ready, willing and LOUD about cancelling. Liberal voters in DT MOTV are still in shock and disbelief that Russia invaded Ukraine. At least that same bunch are throwing things at their TV's when Trump is shown or mentioned.