Replacing the Subs

[MilEME09]

Still need almost twice as many sailors for the KSS III compared to the 212CD. And if we decide to go with Blue/Gold double crew system that challenge gets much bigger.

The RCN is struggling now to train enough sailors for the current surface fleet. Training new submariners will be a significant challenge .

Which requires a significant recruitment strategy, dont underestimate the attraction of shiny new kit vs your grandpa's subs too

 

[PHughes]

Truth.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Which requires a significant recruitment strategy, dont underestimate the attraction of shiny new kit vs your grandpa's subs too

Add to that a significant pay raise.

 

[Czech_pivo]

If I d this snippet from a news report today to be interesting -
“
That is what makes next week’s closed-door visit to Sweden by Industry Minister Mélanie Joly (also minister responsible for Canada Economic Development for Quebec Regions), and Stephen Fuhr, secretary of state for defence procurement, all the more interesting from a geopolitical perspective.

Joly and Fuhr will meet with Ebba Busch, Sweden’s deputy prime minister (also business and industry minister), and Pål Jonson, Sweden’s minister for defence, “to advance their collaboration” and “deepen the Canada–Sweden relationship,” an advisory about their visit says.”

It could we are looking in the wrong directly when we think Sweden, SAAB and Gripen, when we might be better off thinking Sweden, SAAB and A26.
Maybe the focus is a joint development with SAAB and Davy? in a joint venture tire to say build the first 7-8 subs in Sweden and then the last 4-5 at Davy? I’m totally speculating on Davy for 2 reasons, first only shipyard left with the infrastructure/size/availability to potentially be in a position to build subs in the 8yrs+ timeframe and, second, potential carrot to dangle in front of Quebec getting on board and saying ‘yes’ to a new oil/gas pipeline/terminal east of Quebec City or dropping down to New Brunswick at Saint John’s Irving facility. This approach gets Quebec on board with an expanded Davy shipyard and the jobs with it, keeps Irving happy with a new pipeline to its refinery in Saint John, which lessens the blow of losing out on Davy getting the sub work.
I’m spit balling here, but it’s the type of horse trading that will need to happen to get theses big infrastructure projects built.

 

[Maxman1]

Still need almost twice as many sailors for the KSS III compared to the 212CD.

Which is roughly the same number as the Victoria class.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Add to that a significant pay raise.

Coupled with a downturn in the economy, with Condo's sales in Vancouver in freefall, expect a lot of trades to be looking for work soon out here.

 

[Rifleman62]

Joly and Fuhr will meet with Ebba Busch, Sweden’s deputy prime minister (also business and industry minister), and Pål Jonson, Sweden’s minister for defence, “to advance their collaboration” and “deepen the Canada–Sweden relationship,” an advisory about their visit says.”

I am hoping for Combat Vehicle 90.

 

[MilEME09]

I am hoping for Combat Vehicle 90.

You'll take your M4 carl G and like it.

Back to crew size on subs, the KSS3 mim crew is 30, standard 50, which is around Victoria size. Yet significant size increase and capability increase for us, especially with land attack capability.

 

[Stoker]

I was talking to a couple of submariners the other day as their office is very close to mine. We got to talking and they think the new submarine will be a German design based on what they heard. Hopefully we'll know in a year.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I was talking to a couple of submariners the other day as their office is very close to mine. We got to talking and they think the new submarine will be a German design based on what they heard. Hopefully we'll know in a year.

Technically the SK subs were based on a German design. They bought some, ran them and then built their own. I have concerns the Germans are overstating their abilty to deliver and provide the economic support.

If SK got the contract, I could see them build the support base on the East Coast first, with the first 1 to 2 subs going there, while we kept the Victoria's on the West coast and then demob the Victorias and refurbish the base, with the West Coast sub possibly based in SK till the base is ready.

Anyone heard what they hope to do with the Vic's? Gift them to Australia to supplement their Collin's while they wait for AUKUS to deliver?

 

[Czech_pivo]

Technically the SK subs were based on a German design. They bought some, ran them and then built their own. I have concerns the Germans are overstating their abilty to deliver and provide the economic support.

If SK got the contract, I could see them build the support base on the East Coast first, with the first 1 to 2 subs going there, while we kept the Victoria's on the West coast and then demob the Victorias and refurbish the base, with the West Coast sub possibly based in SK till the base is ready.

Anyone heard what they hope to do with the Vic's? Gift them to Australia to supplement their Collin's while they wait for AUKUS to deliver?

I do not see how the Germans will be able to meet our timetable, it’s near impossible for them to do so.

 

[Genetk44]

I do not see how the Germans will be able to meet our timetable, it’s near impossible for them to do so.

When has that ever influenced a Liberal government.

 

[Maxman1]

Anyone heard what they hope to do with the Vic's? Gift them to Australia to supplement their Collin's while they wait for AUKUS to deliver?

Payback for the old F-18s they sold us?

 

[k.numbers]

Very true, but for that tonnage you get a lot more capability from those VLS tubes. I have wonder if their crewing is a doctrine/training thing or a actual hard requirement thing? Also if your not using the VLS on a patrol/training/exercise, does that reduce crew demands? They might have a separate team to manage the SBM's?

I think it's a bit of both. Being a conscription system; the Koreans have a lot of manpower on short (1-2 year) service and the way they man units reflects that. Can't exactly spend 12 to 18 months training someone if their service period is only 2 years. So they tend to have more crew that are trained more narrowly on specific jobs.

The RFI had a maximum crew size of 40 in its requirements list (the ROK Navy runs the KSS III with 50) and the proposal that Hanwha submitted met our crew size requirement. So getting down to 40 is certainly a doctrine and training thing, but the absolute minimum may still be higher than the 212CD.

 

[OldSolduer]

I am hoping for Combat Vehicle 90.

Nothing is too good for our troops so…
I’m sure y’all know the rest