Replacing the Subs

[Colin Parkinson]

Operating under the ice needs to be defined. I suspect it means travelling a short distance under the ice edge. Our subs will not be transiting under the ice.
The power plant doesn’t determine if you can punch thru the ice. The amount of reserve buoyancy is what determines if it can push up thru the ice. The type and thickness of the ice needs to be factored in as well. As well, the structural strength is a consideration.
I’m sure there are some submariners on this forum whom could better explain this.

We can test the new subs under ice performance, by having a icebreaker follow them in an exercise. There will be no modification to the sail for punching through the ice, so likley if they have to, they will be stuck on the surface till they get back to base for repairs.

 

[Stoker]

We can test the new subs under ice performance, by having a icebreaker follow them in an exercise. There will be no modification to the sail for punching through the ice, so likley if they have to, they will be stuck on the surface till they get back to base for repairs.

I safely say we won't be surfacing through a ice pack. At least not intentionally. At most we'll be operating ice edge around the marginal ice zone and after much study and precautions.

 

[MilEME09]

Bidding instructions are out, due by spring! somehow I don't think it will take till spring, I suspect both groups are ready to go

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/military-submarine-contract-bidders-9.6985543?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar

 

[IKnowNothing]

Bidding instructions are out, due by spring! somehow I don't think it will take till spring, I suspect both groups are ready to go

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/military-submarine-contract-bidders-9.6985543?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar

Unless it's buried in the 15% for financial wherewithal, no points for expedited delivery

"As it makes the decision, the federal government will put a lot of weight on what kind of package each company can offer in terms of sustainment for the fleet of 12 submarines after they’re purchased. Fifty per cent of the company’s score will be in that category.

According to the bid instruction documents, 20 per cent of the decision will be weighted on the platform itself. The company’s financial wherewithal counts for 15 per cent and the remaining 15 per cent involves what sort of economic benefits can be offered in relation to the contract."

 

[MilEME09]

Unless it's buried in the 15% for financial wherewithal, no points for expedited delivery

Can the germans even speed it up? my understanding is they told Canada we had to sign this year if we wanted a boat by 2035, meanwhile korean is still offering 3 by 2032. With what we have heard about fleet maintenance facilities, etc my money is still on the koreans for having a leg up here.

 

[Nvlgzr]

We can test the new subs under ice performance, by having an icebreaker follow them in an exercise. There will be no modification to the sail for punching through the ice, so likley if they have to, they will be stuck on the surface till they get back to base for repairs.

Stoker is correct, “we won’t be surfacing through ice pack.”

Before taking such a risk to the crew and boat; it would be prudent for the manufacturer to create a computer model of ice conditions and observe how the submarine model and ice model react to the other.

 

[OldSolduer]

Bidding instructions are out, due by spring! somehow I don't think it will take till spring, I suspect both groups are ready to go

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/military-submarine-contract-bidders-9.6985543?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar

Its about bloody time.

 

[KevinB]

Stoker is correct, “we won’t be surfacing through ice pack.”

Intentionally…

Before taking such a risk to the crew and boat; it would be prudent for the manufacturer to create a computer model of ice conditions and observe how the submarine model and ice model react to the other.

Garbage in, garbage out. Modeling is a great tool if you know what given parameters are. Unfortunately unless you test systems and components to failure with a decent sample size, you don’t really know what can be done.

I say this simply as a submarine isn’t a homogeneous piece of steel, and subsurface ice formations are not uniform.

Also while as much as I like to beat the SSN drum for Canada due to the under ice aspect - talking to some retired USN Sub folks my wife works with has been a little eye opening as it isn’t like a VA SSN or Ohio SSBN can just punch up anywhere they want under the ice pack. Apparently they need to look for optimal spots to avoid damage - which given the Mass and Power of those boats, doesn’t give me a lot of hope for an AIP boat at this juncture.