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Seaspan is slowly automating, but at the same time you don't want to be seen reducing jobs when you are getting buckets of government monies.
Replacing the Subs
- Thread starter Spencer100
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It is not reducing jobs. They cannot physically hire any more people, because they do not exist to be hired. They need to embrace tech to make their existing workforce much, much more productive.
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Hence a huge issue on how do we build the CDC that Topshee is desperate to get in 5-6yrs when we can’t find the people, let alone the production facilities.
Halifax Tar
Army.ca Legend
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His point about a lack of blue collar works in Vancouver, the most expensive housing market, is astute. And hits on many levels.
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Increasing productiveness is one of the ways we compete with the world. Canadian productiveness is terrible. I applaud Seaspan for going this direction. It's only going to improve their shipyard.
Rainbow1910
Sr. Member
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The kind of shipbuilding people see out of Japan, China and South Korea is fundamentally built upon factors that Canada is either unwilling or physically unable to match. Ridiculous government subsidies (enough to make what Canada gives to its own yards look like pocket change) allow many of these yards to employ tactics which would otherwise be financially untenable without such supports, lower wages/currency costs allow competitiveness, long standing advanced shipbuilding techniques, potentially kind of iffy warship build standards for quicker/simpler builds, high use of foreign imported workforces, etc. Many of these yards are jumping between substantial commercial orders and military orders, not being concerned about layoffs or a lack of work that many Western yards suffer from.
We can always make improvements to our shipyards however, its fundamentally unrealistic to expect the Koreans, Japanese or whoever else to just snap their fingers and magically make our shipyards more effective. For all the crap they rightfully get, Irving and Seaspan are very capable and advanced modern shipbuilding operations themselves at the end of the day.
Don't know about Irving but both Seaspan and Ontario Shipyards have partnered with community colleges and are developing fabrication, welding engineering, painting and electrical courses for apprentices. Each college involved should be able to train a constant supply of semi-skilled workers with the first few coming available by the end of next year which would bring them on line as the production ramps up. We don't need an abundant supply of immigrants but perhaps a few senior types to contribute to training at each facility. What we need is less discussion and even less hand-wringing
Rainbow1910
Sr. Member
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Irving does have agreements with in place with Nova Scotia Community College for similar courses I believe. My primary point is for people to adjust expectations that even with upcoming procurement programs involving foreign nations/shipyards, we shouldn't expect some kind of quantum leap in shipbuilding at home by comparison.
Case in point.
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Better late than never I guess. But planting this tree 10yrs ago in 2015 when they kicked off the AOPS would have been great. Now they'll get 80 tradespeople in the spring of 2027 and the funding is only for the initial 2yr period, no mention of it being an ongoing commitment. Hopefully they'll put forward another tranche of funding for another batch of 80 to be inducted this fall of 2026 and continue for another 10-15yrs.Case in point.
Won't they need it? Simple rates of attrition will require at a guess 10% replacement/training per year and that is without expansion unless they reach the point where they can do on-job apprenticing more efficiently.
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To sustain a work force and a line of business for complicated expensive products with long assembly times, a steady (predictable and continuing) market demand is required. Start at the root.
I believe Irving recently stated that their attrition rate is about 6.8 %.Part of the late start for NSCC collaboration has been the lack of accommodation on campus and low vacancy rates and high rents in Metro Halifax . The Province just opened two Dartmouth on site "barracks" with 300 beds . Something that has been needed for decades.
Slight tangent but the benefits of the NSS are starting to appear all over as in deficiencies that have lain dormant or simply ignored for decades are coming to light and being dealt with. Rip Van Wrinkle is finally awake.
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The Globe and Mail has a new article out that states the new Subs will need additional equipment t operate under ice. Unfortunately the article is behind a paywall.
The good news is that Australian commentator Peter Coates at his website Submarine Matters has some highlights from the article:
gentleseas.blogspot.com
The good news is that Australian commentator Peter Coates at his website Submarine Matters has some highlights from the article:
Future Canadian Submarines' biggest task Monitor approaches to Arctic & other Chokepoints
A professional level blog on strategic matters, especially submarines (nuclear and conventional) in English, Hindi & most other major languages.
gentleseas.blogspot.com
HavokFour
Army.ca Veteran
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Germans (slowly) catching up on their carrot offerings, still very much behind Hanwha.
www.theglobeandmail.com
Archive
German minister says auto industry in talks to expand footprint in Canada
Minister for Economic Affairs and Energy Katherina Reiche says she can’t go into detail, but Carney’s auto strategy ‘is very attractive’
www.theglobeandmail.com
Halifax Tar
Army.ca Legend
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They did ? Where ?
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As a society we need to embrace the skilled trades and do a fundamental shift in how we prepare people for them.
My grandfathers were both British tradesmen, trained in the 50s and 60s. Their apprenticeships were levels above a current Canadian one mainly because they actually cared to train them.
The current Canadian model is a dog eat dog system which favours figuring it out yourself and stealing anyone with any skill from elsewhere. No one wants to train and everyone is lacking workers so they don’t want to dedicate what workers they have to training (sounds a lot like the CAF…).
They went into apprenticeships in grade 10 (gasp, not completing highschool!) based off a list of available trades. Basically the better you did in school let you pick which trade you wanted. If there was 50 millwright, 100 electricians, 50 plumbers, and a basket weaver if you were top grades you could pick and if you were bottom grades well if basket weaver was all that was left, guess where you were going.
By starting after grade 10 they were around 16 years old. By 21 they were both ticketed tradesmen who then proceeded to put in 40+ years of skilled quality work.
One went to management first as a draftsman then into the offices finishing as head of maintenance in a pulp and paper mill, all this without a university degree, or even highschool.
The other proceeded to eventually work in nuclear power and even though he never left the shop floor gained many specialized skilled tickets from NDE to high pressure welding. Again no highschool just skilled workers.
Both are extremely literate, competent, and knowledgeable in their fields, yet Canada doesn’t get it.
We focus on degrees and worthless highschool diplomas (which both seem to have less and less value) without any actual care about what those degrees and diplomas are supposed to represent. We pass anyone who shows up so they get the check in the box but those they are passing can’t actually do what they are supposed to be able to.
Real apprenticeship programs are needed. They need a national high quality standard. They need to take it out of, company, union, and the colleges hands to ensure it is quality.
Those three influences are actively fighting a proper system. Companies because they don’t want to pay for it and try and cheap out wherever possible. Unions because they undermine getting quality applicants in favour of seniority, well preventing management from getting rid of the worst workers. And the colleges because they aren’t focused on creating a quality education, rather making money. It also doesn’t help when most the college management doesn’t understand the trades and focuses on degrees than actual professionals with real world skills.
There is a lack of blue collar nationally. The best time to have started training them was a decade ago. The next best time is today. I suspect it won’t be for a other few years when it really hits us that they shall change, and even then only because they must.
Oldgateboatdriver
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Fully agree E17. But if you think this is limited to skilled trades, then you haven't been looking for an entry level job lately. It's a North American illness: Everyone who is looking for university qualified employees is asking for "five years experience", and no one is willing to be the one hiring right from graduation and provide those five years. Moreover, with AI assisted hiring nowadays, everyone is looking for such specific sets of qualifications that just about no-one meets all the criteria, so hardly anyone can get an interview, which also means that no-one can expand their knowledge base by going into a job that they don't know but have skills for.
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Greedy unrealistic employers at all levels.
Last apprenticeship posting I looked at out of curiosity wanted 2nd year or farther along apprentices, so basically looking for someone who already has a job.
There isn’t a shortage of people willing to work, but there is a shortage of employers who are willing to actually train employees.
