Gawd no! Some people in Ottawa may actually read this blog and take you seriously thinking what a great idea.
Replacing the Subs
- Thread starter Spencer100
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Saw my first Hanwha advert on APTN TV tonight for the KSS III. “Canada doesn’t just need plans, it needs Presence”. Some sort of oblique and grayed out version of a Chinese sub surfacing and landing special forces on a barren ice covered island.
Rainbow1910
Sr. Member
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CEO of TKMS coming onto CBC to give an interview which I feel did not go especially well.
Going into an interview with a major Canadian media organization in 2026 and being entirely unwilling to give even a preliminary jobs figure tied to your bid does not reflect well on TKMS. It doesn't take a genius to look at how much good publicity Saab received recently by sharing their jobs projections for the Gripen bid (even if they are nonsensical). When your competitor (Hanwha) is willing to share figures but you sit there and say "well we sent it to the Government but we're not willing to share it with the Canadian taxpayer now", it does not look very positive for your trustworthiness as a public partner. Of course any of these jobs figures are typically heavily inflated and ultimately unrealistic however, simultaneously being unwilling to share anything while also saying your bid will do a lot more than your opponents makes you look smug, dismissive and frankly unserious. You clearly have figures internally which you said you've provided to Government, but you are unwilling to be transparent to the Canadian public like your competitor.
TKMS has also upped its claim of boat delivery, now stating they can provide 2 boats by 2032 instead of the previously claimed 1. With that being said however, the stipulation is seemingly attached that Canada needs to enter into talks with both Germany and Norway to get their own boats from the active production line. Norway has already taken over German boats and pushed the German delivery dates far back when they entered the program, but they expect Canada to enter in this late in the game and fight for the scraps in a clogged up production line? Given the defence situation in Europe and the delays to the program already, it seems very unlikely Norway will give up their boats, and Germany is already delayed from Norway as previously stated. Hanwha is still sticking to its claims they can deliver the first boat to Canada by 2032 with another three boats being delivered by 2035, which is double the German offering (+1 year) without this requirement to fight for production slots separately from the bid.
It is positive to see TKMS pushing back against the idea of a split fleet as being suboptimal and obviously affecting the benefits packages they have on offer, but overall the interview was a relatively soft pitch that they seem to have fumbled in my opinion.
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Yea my main concern is that the Germans want to fill their order book to the brim and figure out how to deliver later. I think they are also used to being the "premium pick" and not used to having to compete either for subs or for MBT's.
SK knows that our order is super important for them and would very likely cement further orders, therefore it's a "whole of government issue". They will pull the stops out to deliver subs and support.
SK knows that our order is super important for them and would very likely cement further orders, therefore it's a "whole of government issue". They will pull the stops out to deliver subs and support.
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Noah has a newsletter online addressing this idea of splitting the sub and how bad it would be. Interestingly, in the comments section he states its someone (unknown) in the PMO who is pushing the idea.
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Gilmore or Blanchard.Noah has a newsletter online addressing this idea of splitting the sub and how bad it would be. Interestingly, in the comments section he states its someone (unknown) in the PMO who is pushing the idea.
Taking this on a slightly different tangent. I think Stoker or Oldgateboatdriver may have answered my next question. When we get our subs, assuming 12 and assuming all from the same company; what is the expected split between west and east coast.?
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I though in the past they said split evenly between the coasts.
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I don’t think that has been fully decided.
Swampbuggy
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I imagine it would be determined by whether the powers that be have a bias towards arctic operations vs a pacific pivot.
Rainbow1910
Sr. Member
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Stephen Fuhr reiterates that despite rumours, the federal govt is not going to be doing a split fleet. It is increasingly sounding like there might be a semi-rogue party somewhere high in govt continually pushing to split up every contract.
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Noah has stated that he has heard/been informed, that this is coming down to 1 person in the PMO, not a Cabinet Minister and he has specifically said that it's not coming from Joly.
HavokFour
Army.ca Veteran
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Good, put that nonsense to bed and find out who that person is.
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MilEME09
Army.ca Fixture
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That one person should be reprimanded
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Reprimanded or out of a job?
If its the same person that leaked the score card for the F35/Gripen analysis to Radio Canada then that's a track record of sabotage.....
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Reprimanded by who? Presenting a different opinion in the pmo or cabinet shouldnt be discouraged
IKnowNothing
Army.ca Veteran
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I wonder how different the reaction to the sub split fleet would be if we had already awarded for 8x 212's for the traditional SSK role, scheduled to come online between 2034 and 2042, and the "split" was a capability driven decision to get 4x KSIII's between 2032 and 2035 in order to:
- get more boats in the water/ retire the Victoria's faster
- obtain the KSIII with it's vertical launch tubes as a distinct strategic capability for Arctic sovereignty, a quasi "Boomer"
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100% true statement.
What about taking your opinion and leaking it out to the press?
