Reserve Pension- Merged

[Rifleman62]

Geo,  I was pointing out the error in the fact sheet to all. Some of the readers here may not have the understanding we have on tax issues, as we are closing in on retirement and are looking seriously at options. I am sure we can compare notes/info.

Haggis,  to answer your question, I am sure the folks at the  Director Accounts Processing, Pay and Pensions / Pension Services: http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/pension/intro_e.asp  will do the calculations. It certainly will not be clerks at Unit/Bde/Area level.

I am really waiting with baited breath to find out how much I will owe. Concurrently, the Rifleman62 personal pension plan continues: Super 7 and Lotto 6/49. One way I am going to view the pension plan is to divide the amount I owe by the annual benefit to see how long I must live, so that I personally, will break even i.e. 0% gain on investment . So if I owe $150,000, and will get $25,000 per year pension, I must live 6 years to break even (no fun to break even if you are dead). Includes bridge CPP etc. Just my warped way at looking at things. Sort of reinforces what Geo was getting at - 12.8% return on investments verses x years to break even.

 

[navymich]

Yeah, I too have a financial background, and I too will be doing some serious calculating.

Unfortunately, many of us (myself included) don't.  Not that it effects me anymore now that I've crossed over, but I know alot of friends are still trying to figure things out.  Is the best advice to grab a financial planner then?  What kind of basic stuff should one ask?

 

[Roy Harding]

Unfortunately, many of us (myself included) don't.  Not that it effects me anymore now that I've crossed over, but I know alot of friends are still trying to figure things out.  Is the best advice to grab a financial planner then?  What kind of basic stuff should one ask?

Find an outfit which does financial planning - Edward Jones, Investor's Group, amongst others come to mind.  I will not divulge which one I went with, as I will not shill for a particular company.  Find a representative with whom you are comfortable - don't take the first one you come across.  In my own case, I found one who was supportive of my dreams - that's why I'm now opening my own cabinet shop - RRSPs were not big on my list, but she was able to leverage the tax advantage of RRSPs to ensure I could do what I wanted.

Discuss with that rep what YOU want to do.  LISTEN to their reply.  Make a decision regarding how you want to proceed - once that decision is made, trust your rep to do it right.

I don't know if that helped - but it worked for me.

 

[Haggis]

Haggis,  to answer your question, I am sure the folks at the  Director Accounts Processing, Pay and Pensions / Pension Services: http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/pension/intro_e.asp  will do the calculations. It certainly will not be clerks at Unit/Bde/Area level.

I doubt that DAPPP has the personnel capacity to deal with the number of calculations that needs to be done on present and former Reservists.  Also, I wouild not want to have some "DAPPPer" arbitrarily decide what my entitlements are/could be/should be without any interaction with me (and I don't mean by e-mail).

Let me ask you this:  if you were buying an RRSP, which is what this essentially is, would you do it over the internet or by e-mail?  Or would you sit down with a financial planner and do it in person?

Given the information, misinformation and disnformation that's been flying around on this issue, I want the opportunity to be educated, informed and consulted in person on a matter as significant and potentially costly as this.

 

[Rifleman62]

Haggis, I agree with you. Roy Harding has in a way, described how it should be done. DAPPP does not have the person power. Errors will be made. I think they are in a fine pickle. My son-in-law received a overpayment cheque of just under $1000 in Nov 06, 14 years after he bought his Reserve time when he joined the Reg F.

 

[geo]

Haggis, I agree with you. Roy Harding has in a way, described how it should be done. DAPPP does not have the person power. Errors will be made. I think they are in a fine pickle. My son-in-law received a overpayment cheque of just under $1000 in Nov 06, 14 years after he bought his Reserve time when he joined the Reg F.

what kind of interest did they pay on the $$$ they had in their pocket for all those years?... betcha it wasn't 7% compound

 

[geo]

In the initial Reserve pension plan PR launch, the CF did committ themselves to providing you with some "advice"... will this advice be competent? highly unlikely.  My suggestion is to look at financial planners.

 

[Spr.Earl]

Just recieved the CANFORGEN today and here it is in English and French.
Those of you who are Franco or speak French please pass on the info. 

Subject: SUBJ: IMPLEMENTATION OF RESERVE FORCE PENSION PLAN - ADMIN
PROCESS, R 191851Z DEC 06 (0218766-2006354000489.txt)


FROM: NDHQ CMP OTTAWA
DTG: R 191851Z DEC 06
SUBJ: IMPLEMENTATION OF RESERVE FORCE PENSION PLAN - ADMIN PROCESS
(0218766-2006354000489.txt)
------------------------------------------------------------
RAAUZYUW RCCPJAW4024 3541806-UUUU--RCWEWLA RCWEZNA RCWMBNS RCWMCTS
RCWMFYS RCWMHBS RCWMHVS RCWMKES RCWMMFS RCWMMGA RCWMNHS RCWMNMS
RCWMPCA RCWMPJA RCWMRGS RCWMSKS RCWMTRS RCWMWGS RCWMWIS RCWMWVA
RCWMYKS.
ZNR UUUUU ZOC ZIA
R 191851Z DEC 06
FM NDHQ CMP OTTAWA
TO CANFORGEN
BT
UNCLAS CANFORGEN 189/06 CMP 094
BILINGUAL MESSAGE/MESSAGE BILINGUE
SIC WAZ
SUBJECT: IMPLEMENTATION OF RESERVE FORCE PENSION PLAN - ADMIN PROCESS
REFS: A. CANFORGEN 176/05
B.A-PM-245-001/FP-001 CHAP 15

1. REF A ADVISED THAT THE COMING INTO FORCE (CIF) OF THE RESERVE
FORCE PENSION PLAN IS TARGETED FOR MARCH 2007. PRELIMINARY
INFORMATION IS PROVIDED TO ENABLE RES F UNITS AND MEMBERS TO
ADEQUATELY PREPARE FOR MARCH 2007

2. AS A MINIMUM, RES F UNITS MUST DO THE FOLLOWING:
A. IDENTIFY THE MEMBERS CURRENTLY MEETING THE ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA
AND

B. PROVIDE ELIGIBLE MEMBERS WITH REQUIRED DOCUMENTATION. PRIORITY
SHOULD BE GIVEN TO MEMBERS WHOSE RELEASE IS IMMINENT

3. RESERVISTS WILL QUALIFY BY MEETING THE FOLLOWING ELIGIBILITY
PAGE 2 RCCPJAW4024 UNCLAS
CRITERIA:

A. CFSA PART I (FULL TIME): WHEN THE MEMBER S TOTAL NUMBER OF DAYS
OF CANADIAN FORCES SERVICE DURING ANY PERIOD OF 60 MONTHS BEGINNING
ON OR AFTER 1 APRIL 1999 IS NO LESS THAN 1,674 DAYS AND

B. CFSA PART I.1 (PART TIME): ANY TWO CONSECUTIVE PERIODS OF 12
MONTHS BEGINNING ON OR AFTER 1 APRIL 1999 WHERE THE EARNINGS WHICH
THEY WERE ENTITLED TO RECEIVE WERE EQUAL TO OR GREATER THAN 10 PER
CENT OF THE CANADA PENSION PLAN MAXIMUM PENSIONABLE EARNINGS.
ADDITIONAL INFO ARE AVAILABLE AT THE FOLL WEBSITE:
WWW.FORCES.GC.CA/DGCB/DPSP/ENGRAPH/MODERNIZATION UNDERSCORE E.ASP

4. RELEASE ADMINISTRATION - PENSION ENTITLEMENTS WILL BE
ADMINISTERED CENTRALLY. THE TRIGGER FOR A PENSION ENTITLEMENT IS,
WITH FEW EXCEPTIONS, THE RELEASE OF THE CF MEMBER. IT IS IMPERATIVE
THAT THE RELEASE IS COMPLETED IN A TIMELY AND ACCURATE MANNER AND
THAT RELEASE PROCEDURES AT REF B ARE FOLLOWED. TO THIS END, CMP IS
ACTIVELY PURSUING THE STREAMLINING OF THE RELEASE PROCESS.

5. MEMBERS ENTITLED TO ELECT TO PURCHASE PRIOR SERVICE SHOULD GATHER
THEIR SERVICE AND EARNING DOCUMENTATION.  THIS WILL GREATLY IMPROVE
THE TURNAROUND TIME TO VALIDATE AND CALCULATE THE AMOUNT OF THE
ELECTION.  LIST OF ACCEPTABLE SOURCE DOCUMENTS CAN BE FOUND AT:
PAGE 3 RCCPJAW4024 UNCLAS
HTTP//WWW.ADMFINCS.FORCES.GC.CA/PENSION/RESERVE UNDERSCORE E.ASP?SEL
EQUAL NULL.

6. IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT RES F UNITS ENSURE THAT MEMBER PAY DATA IS
CURRENT AND UP TO DATE. IT IS CRITICAL TO THE PROCESS TO ENSURE THAT
PERS DATA SUCH AS ENROLMENT DATE, RELEASE DATE, LWOP, EXEMPT DUTY
AND TRAINING DATES, DOB, GENDER, MAILING ADDRESS, ETC ARE REVIEWED
AND VALIDATED

7. AT CIF, TWO SEPARATE HELPDESKS WILL BE ESTABLISHED: ONE TO GUIDE
ELIGIBLE MEMBERS THROUGH THE ELECTION PROCESS AND THE SECOND TO
ANSWER QUESTIONS ON ELIGIBILITY.

8. ADDITIONAL INFORMATION WILL BE PROVIDED VIA THE CHAIN OF COMMAND
AS SOON AS IT BECOMES AVAILABLE. QUERIES SHOULD BE DIRECTED THROUGH
THE CHAIN OF COMMAND TO THE ASSIGNED COMMAND REPS
OBJET : MISE EN OEUVRE DU REGIME DE PENSION DE LA FORCE DE RESERVE -
PROCESSUS ADMINISTRATIFS
REFS : A. CANFORGEN 176/05

B. A-PM-245-001/FP-001 CHAP 15


1. LE DOCUMENT DE REF A ANNONCE QUE LA DATE D ENTREE EN VIGUEUR
(DEV) PREVUE POUR LE REGIME DE PENSION DE LA FORCE DE RESERVE EST
MARS 2007. DES RENSEIGNEMENTS PRELIMINAIRES SONT FOURNIS DANS LE
PAGE 4 RCCPJAW4024 UNCLAS
PRESENT MESSAGE AFIN DE PERMETTRE AUX UNITES DE LA F RES ET A LEURS
MEMBRES DE SE PREPARER ADEQUATEMENT POUR MARS 2007

2. TOUT AU MOINS, LES UNITES DE LA RESERVE DOIVENT ETRE PRETES A:

A. DETERMINER LES RESERVISTES QUI SATISFONT ACTUELLEMENT AUX
CRITERES D ADMISSIBILITE, ET

B. FOURNIR AUX RESERVISTES ADMISSIBLES LA DOCUMENTATION NECESSAIRE.
IL FAUT DONNER LA PRIORITE AUX RESERVISTES DONT LA LIBERATION EST
IMMINENTE

3. CRITERES D ADMISSIBILITE :

A. PARTIE I DE LA LPRFC (TEMPS PLEIN): SI DANS UNE PERIODE DE 60
MOIS COMMENCANT LE 1 AVRIL 1999 OU TOUTE AUTRE DATE ULTERIEURE, LE
NOMBRE TOTAL DE JOURS EN SERVICE DANS LES FORCES CANADIENNES
TOTALISENT AU MOINS 1,674 JOURS ET

B. PARTIE I.1 DE LA LPRFC (TEMPS PARTIEL): SI DURANT DEUX PERIODES
CONSECUTIVES DE 12 MOIS COMMENCANT LE 1 AVRIL 1999 OU TOUTE AUTRE
DATE ULTERIEURE, LE REVENU DU MEMBRE EST AU MOINS 10 POUR CENT DU
PLAFOND ANNUEL ETABLI PAR LE REGIME DE PENSION DU CANADA.  DES
RENSEIGNEMENTS SUPPLEMENTAIRES SONT DISPONIBLES AU SITE WEB SUIVANT:
WWW.FORCES.GC.CA/DGCB/DPSP/ENGRAPH/MODERNIZATION SOULIGNE F.ASP

4. GESTION DE LA LIBERATION: LE DROIT A LA PENSION SERA GERE
PAGE 5 RCCPJAW4024 UNCLAS
CENTRALEMENT. LE DECLENCHEUR EST, A QUELQUES EXCEPTIONS PRES, LA
LIBERATION DU RESERVISTE. IL EST IMPERATIF QUE LA LIBERATION SOIT
EFFECTUEE DE FACON OPPORTUNE ET APPROPRIEE ET QUE LES PROCEDURES DE
LIBERATION DECRITES DANS LE DOCUMENT DE REF B SOIENT RESPECTEES. A
CETTE FIN, LE CPM TRAVAILLE ACTIVEMENT A RATIONALISER LE PROCESSUS
DE LIBERATION.

5. LES RESERVISTES QUI ONT LE DROIT DE RACHETER LEUR SERVICE
ANTERIEUR DOIVENT COMMENCER A COLLECTIONNER LES DOCUMENTS RELATIFS A
CE SERVICE ET LE REVENU GAGNE LORS DE CE SERVICE.  CECI FACILITERA
GRANDEMENT LE PROCESSUS DE VALIDATION ET DE CALCUL DU MONTANT DU
RACHAT.  LA LISTE DES DOCUMENTS DE BASE SE TROUVENT AU SITE WEB
SUIVANT: HTTP//WWW.ADMFINCS.FORCES.GC.CA/PENSION/RESERVESERVICE
SOULIGNE F.ASP?SEL EGAL NULL

6. IL EST PRIMORDIAL QUE LES UNITES DE LA F RES VEILLENT A CE QUE
LES DONNEES RELATIVES A LA SOLDE DES RESERVISTES SOIENT EXACTES ET A
JOUR. IL EST AUSSI CRUCIAL POUR LE PROCESSUS DE VEILLER A CE QUE LES
RENSEIGNEMENTS PERSONNELS TELS QUE LA DATE D ENROLEMENT, LA DATE DE
LIBERATION, LES CONGES NON PAYES, EXEMPTION D EXERCICE ET
INSTRUCTION, LA DDN, LE SEXE, L ADRESSE POSTALE, ETC. SOIENT AUSSI
EXAMINES ET CONFIRMES
PAGE 6 RCCPJAW4024 UNCLAS

7. DEUX BUREAUX D AIDE SERONT ETABLIS A LA DEV, LE PREMIER POUR
GUIDER LES MEMBRES ELIGIBLES A PASSER AU TRAVERS DU PROCESSUS D
ELECTION ET LE DEUXIEME POUR REPONDRE AUX QUESTIONS SUR L
ELIGIBILITE.

8. DES RENSEIGNEMENTS SUPPLEMENTAIRES SERONT FOURNIS EN SUIVANT LA
CHAINE DE COMMANDEMENT DES QU ILS SERONT DISPONIBLES. LES DEMANDES D
INFORMATION DOIVENT ETRE TRANSMISES AUX REP DE COMMANDEMENT ASSIGNES
EN SUIVANT LA CHAINE DE COMMANDEMENT
BT
#4024
WBO412  DELIVERED   3541803   772885

 

[DavidAkin]

This just in ---

Reservists can contribute to and receive benefits from the Canadian Pension Plan.

DND release at:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=2174

My blog post on the subject at:
As I reported on CTV Newsnet a few minutes ago, Defence Minister Gordon O’Connor is to announce later this afternoon that, as of Jan. 1, all Canadian Forces reservists will be able to contribute to and receive benefits from the Canada Pension Plan — just like any other worker in Canada .... [Read the rest at: http://davidakin.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2006/12/21/2588831.html]

 

[Cardstonkid]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061221/reserves_pension_061221/20061221?hub=TopStories

CTV News 


Canada's reservists to be eligible for pension
Updated Thu. Dec. 21 2006 2:04 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor announced today that Canada's reservists will be able to contribute to and receive pension plan benefits starting in the new year, CTV News has learned.

Canada currently has about 8,500 reservists in the military, and establishing reservist pensions has been an issue many of them have been fighting for.

"This is the CPP (Canada Pension Plan) that every worker in Canada pays into and, as a result, is able to collect upon retirement," CTV's David Akin in Ottawa told Newsnet.

There had been a regulation in place preventing reserve soldiers from contributing to or receiving CPP. But the federal government, three years ago under then defence minister John McCallum, approved pensions for these reservists.

McCallum amended the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act to include pension plans for full- and part-time reservists. The logistical legwork to set up the fund has been completed, and the new rules will come into effect as of Jan. 1, 2007.

The pensions were meant as a way to make the reserves attractive to job seekers, and will make it easier for reservists to justify taking time away from their regular jobs to serve in the military.

"A lot of reservists in Afghanistan are serving in a combat role," said Akin.

"Some at CFB Gagetown in New Brunswick are training to go over to Afghanistan in the new year. They are a very important part of Canada's all-volunteer army -- remember we don't have a draft, so we rely on volunteers. So now, reservists may take time away from school, time away from a full-time job in order to go to Afghanistan."

Thirteen per cent of Canada's 2,300-member Afghanistan contingent are reservists who volunteered their services, leaving their civilian jobs.

 

[DavidAkin]

The crack researchers, incidentally, remembered that what O'Connor announced today was actually a legislative initiative of former Liberal Defence Minister John McCallum.
[see press release: http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/LF/English/6_4.asp?ID=138]

“This is really quite ridiculous,” McCallum told me today. “I guess the announcement is that the policy comes into effect on January 1, 2007. What that shows is that military are super slow in implementing things, not that they responded super fast to an idea from O'Connor!”

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I really don't care who's responsible. Just that it, finally, seems to be happening. However, without doing a highjack, at least the CPC finally implemented it, it was not just another ongoing/broken promise of the lieberals, to be carried over from election to election as a carrot on a stick, for votes. McCallum could have done it, if he had the moxy, decency and political will to do it.

Hijack ends.

 

[Haggis]

To me this seems like two separate and distinct items:  Reserve pension as envisioned under the CF Superannuation Act (i.e. THE Reserve Pension) and a Reservist's newly enabled eligibility to receive the same benefits from the Canada Pension Plan as any other Canadian citizen.

Apples and oranges?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If the concensus is there, I'll split it off. I don't want to run the risk of two pension threads, where we're bouncing back and forth, separating the wheat from the chaff. Suggestions for a non confusing title for the contributions thread would be nice, if you guys want to go that way.

 

[dapaterson]

I vote for keeping the thread united, as there are relationshipos between the two issues.  Just as with the current Reg F pensions, Res F pensions will be reduced based on CPP amounts received, so it's material to have the information in a single thread.

on another note:

The CTV story has a slight error - it's not that there are 8500 reservists in the military, but there are an estimated 8500 reservists to whom this will apply.  An important distinction.

EDIT:  One additional error: the CFSA new rules will come into effect as of Mar. 1, 2007, vice the Jan 1, 2007 dated cited in the article.

 

[Cardstonkid]

I am a bit confused about this story. I already contribute to CPP with my full-time job, so a Reserve contribution is really not a big deal for me is it? Wouldn't those who are not currently contributing to CPP be the only ones to benefit from this program? I admit I don't know much about this topic, my apologies if I come off a bit daff.

 

[George Wallace]

I am a bit confused about this story. I already contribute to CPP with my full-time job, so a Reserve contribution is really not a big deal for me is it? Wouldn't those who are not currently contributing to CPP be the only ones to benefit from this program? I admit I don't know much about this topic, my apologies if I come off a bit daff.

Everyone in Canada, who is working, is contributing to CPP.  This is like a 'Company Pension', over and above (seperate from) CPP.  People contributing to Company Pensions, CF Pensions, PS Pensions, etc, still have to pay CPP.

 

[lostrover]

After 26 pages or reading still a bit confused, thus hopefully this is the right place to pose this query.  My "official" relase date was Sept 2005, at that time I had requested to be transferred to the SHR, yet in the endless world of paperwork, this did not happen.  After a year (Aug 2006) I recieved my RFRG, and in Nov my NDI75.  At no time during my release process was I made aware (yes I accept fault 100% for that) off all the CANFORGEN's et al. regarding the rentention aspect in relation to the CIF date.  Might I have any options available to me at this time?  I am just curious and to what the "pension & buyback" would have amounted to.  Can anybody point me in the proper direction to pose such questions?

 

[Cardstonkid]

Everyone in Canada, who is working, is contributing to CPP.  This is like a 'Company Pension', over and above (seperate from) CPP.  People contributing to Company Pensions, CF Pensions, PS Pensions, etc, still have to pay CPP.

I understand CPP is something we all pay into, so is the Reserve CPP plan different from that? Is it above and beyond the regular CPP? Or is it CPP for the first time being offered to Reservists who may not be paying into it elsewhere?

 

[geo]

CPP is a pension plan to which all workers contribute.
Reserve Pension (don't call it res/reg CPP) is something like a company pension plan.  You will contribute something like 4 to 7% of your before tax salary, the gov't kicks in a similar amount and, when you hit retirement age OR XX yrs of service, you will be entitled to the proceeds of your & gov't contributions.