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Reserve Pension- Merged

begbie said:
Has anyone given any thought to a grievance of any kind over some of this.  I recall this thread discussing this option over the 7% CI in the past.  This seems like a rather large target to go after.  But what has had me ticked off for the last few days is the accruing of 4% SI on my buyback since I elected last July.

The regulations governing the CFSA part I and part I.1 are issued by Treasury Board, acting as the Governor in Council, under authority granted by the CFSA.  GrThe National Defence Act states (in part) "There is no right to grieve in respect of ... a matter or case prescribed by the Governor in Council in regulations."

That would seem to preclude a grievance on matters set out in the CFS Regulations or the RFPP Regulations.  Note that I Am Not A Lawyer, just some guy on the internet, so take it with a grain of salt...
 
dapaterson said:
The regulations governing the CFSA part I and part I.1 are issued by Treasury Board, acting as the Governor in Council, under authority granted by the CFSA.  GrThe National Defence Act states (in part) "There is no right to grieve in respect of ... a matter or case prescribed by the Governor in Council in regulations."

That would seem to preclude a grievance on matters set out in the CFS Regulations or the RFPP Regulations.  Note that I Am Not A Lawyer, just some guy on the internet, so take it with a grain of salt...

That does seem to end this line of discussion doesn't it...
 
The only way this conversation can continue is by involving your MP
 
Note that after you make your election, you pay 4% COMPOUND INTEREST on what you owe. Not 4% Simple Interest. On my outstanding buy back that 4% Compound Intrest translates to 6.36 % from the TD Canada Trust Mortage calculator. I took the amount I owe, repayable over 20 years and it comes out to almost the nickle of what I pay monthly. The rate includes a mortaliy charge.

Posted previously:

Re: Reserve Pension
« Reply #407 on: April 10, 2007, 21:35:39 » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As stated by others here, you cannot Redress nor complain to the CF Ombudsman re the pension as it was enacted by the Governor in Council in regulations. Confirmed by the following, and verification with both organizations.

NDA Section 29
GRIEVANCES
Right to grieve

29. (1) An officer or non-commissioned member who has been aggrieved by any decision, act or omission in the administration of the affairs of the Canadian Forces for which no other process for redress is provided under this Act is entitled to submit a grievance.

Exceptions
(2) There is no right to grieve in respect of
(a) a decision of a court martial or the Court Martial Appeal Court;
(b) a decision of a board, commission, court or tribunal established other than under this Act; or
(c) a matter or case prescribed by the Governor in Council in regulations.

The Ombudsman’s Office does not have jurisdiction over issues relating to the Pension Benefits Division Act or the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act. These are pieces of federal legislation, which are amended through Parliament.
 
begbie said:
I find it interesting that the justification for the 7% CI appears to the lack of CPP contributions prior to the CIF date.  My situation probably isn't too far removed from the majority, if it's as I suspect, only a small proportion of reservists do this for a living.  In my case, with the exception of two years of service while at university, I have been working on civy street maxing out on CPP every year.  And since I started paying CPP on my Cl A pay, I've been getting it all back at tax time since I max out with my civy job.  It seems redundant to me.

I would say your sit is far removed from the majority that I know of as most I know of outside the full time military did not hit the max. Most reservists used to be full time students and did not earn enough in a year to pay the max CPP. Even now working full time for minimum wage will not have you max your CPP as this would require a wage of $10.50 per hour.  Although in your sit it is redundant to pay and then be reimbursed both employers are required to make the deductions to cover you - better to get back than to have the gov say you owe.

Has anyone given any thought to a grievance of any kind over some of this.  I recall this thread discussing this option over the 7% CI in the past.  This seems like a rather large target to go after.  But what has had me ticked off for the last few days is the accruing of 4% SI on my buyback since I elected last July.

To me, at least strategically, I see the difference between taking on the system over the 7% CI versus the 4% SI.  It's two different issues (design vs. poor administration) and it's on the poor administration issue that I think we could have a reasonable opportunity to make a case.  It shouldn't cost personnel any extra of their hard earned cash to pay for poor administration.
The only fight I see over the 4% is that if you indicated you were paying it off in one lump sum - then you shouldn't have to pay the 4% from election date to payment if you make the payment within 30 days of notice of amount from them regardless of how long it takes them.  If you are paying off over time then the 4% is payable from election date which is better than the 7% prior to election date. It actually is not costing more in this case.

A point on a statment earlier - 4% hardly qualifies as loan sharking, the only other place you can get a rate that low may be a mortgage.
 
Sorry to butt in. Is there a generic election form, maybe on the web? I don't recall getting one, and if I did, I have no idea where it is. How do you go about getting one?

Cheers.
 
All the forms are online at the ADM(Fin CS) site:

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/rfpp-rpfr/forms-formulaires-eng.asp

takes you directly to the forms (internet site, so it should be accessible anywhere).
 
CountDC said:
The only fight I see over the 4% is that if you indicated you were paying it off in one lump sum - then you shouldn't have to pay the 4% from election date to payment if you make the payment within 30 days of notice of amount from them regardless of how long it takes them.  If you are paying off over time then the 4% is payable from election date which is better than the 7% prior to election date. It actually is not costing more in this case.

Yeah, that's my concern.  However, I also think this logic could be applied to those situations where people are paying their buyback over time.  For example, if it takes them 17 months to notify somebody what their final determination is and the 4% CI is applied on the 17 months, that's 17 months that very person would be paying off their obligation thereby lowering their overall interest costs.  Again, paying more than necessary due to poor administration.
 
begbie said:
Yeah, that's my concern.  However, I also think this logic could be applied to those situations where people are paying their buyback over time.  For example, if it takes them 17 months to notify somebody what their final determination is and the 4% CI is applied on the 17 months, that's 17 months that very person would be paying off their obligation thereby lowering their overall interest costs.  Again, paying more than necessary due to poor administration.

Sounds like another difference between CT buyback and reserve pension buyback. When I did my CT buyback which took 13 months to get an answer on they also calculated the payments I should have paid during that time and took that amount as a lump sum treated as if I had actually paid it during that period so there was no additional interest charged. Can't remember the amount but I pay around $130 a month for the 14 and 1/2 years I am buying back with a credit of 10 years and 285 days to my pension.
 
Does anybody know what's been happening in the pension office.  I've emailed them twice in the last two weeks seeking information on the status of my buyback and nobody has gotten back to me.

Two weeks ago I sent an email to them and it took 4 days to get the automated response sent back.  Then nothing.  Sent another email yesterday and no automated response.

Massive turnover?  Summer holidays?
 
I've always had delays or misdirected replies to my requests; I also find that calling vice writing results in a slightly faster response - but no paper trail... so I always lean towards getting things in writing.
 
Would venture to guess that vacations and postings are having an effect on manning the trenches in the pension office.

My former Sgt ( Rambo ) is about to get forced out of the Pension office on a medical cat... but will be back at the same desk as a civy.... after his vacation +/- 18 Aug
 
Here's a question for people who are far brighter than me and who would hopefully have the technology to try it out:

It would seem that there is some discrepancy and/or difference in the way pension buybacks occur under the Reserve stream as opposed to a Component Transfer (CT) scheme.

I wonder if it would be possible for someone to do a "compassion calculation" of the cost of a CT buyback vs a Reserve buyback given the exact samecircumstances.  I.e. 

Example 1:  a Sgt reservist with 21 full-time (class B) years is undergoing a CT to a Sgt regular force and is buying back all 21 full time years.  How much would he/she have to pay to "buy it back"?

Example 2:  a Sgt reservist with 21 full-time (class B) years is wanting to buy back all 21 full-time years under the new Reserve Force pension scheme.  How much would he/she have to pay to "buy it back"?



It would seem to me that if numbers could actually be put against the above two examples, then would folks have a better idea/case to say that there is some true differences/discrepancies?

I hope someone out there can try this out and let us know.

Thanks in advance.
 
Under the new rules both will pay the same amount.  (Unless Sgt #2 has not been working full-time for at least 5 consecutive years since 1999, in which case the benefits would be different.)

But the current formula (greatly simplified) is the following:

Calculate required contributions on all earnings to pay back service under the part-time plan (part I.1).

If the person is eligible for the full-time plan, calculate the additional payments to pay back service under the full-time plan (part I).


So both Sgts would pay back the same amount, assuming both are entering into the full-time plan.


The significant discrepancy is that under other federal plans (RCMP, public service) the buyback would be at 4% simple interest, vice 7% compound interest.  There is also the "Wage Index" factor applied to historical earnings, which acts as a second inflator to the amounts to be paid back.
 
So if the amount of the buyback would be the same, then maybe the big difference lies in the "financing".

So let's add another caveat to the condition:

Example 1:  a Sgt reservist with 21 full-time (class B) years is undergoing a CT to a Sgt regular force and is buying back all 21 full time years and would like to finance it over 20 years (let's assume the "time" is availalbe for the buyback).
How much would he/she have to pay over the 20 years to "buy it back"?

Example 2:  a Sgt reservist with 21 full-time (class B) years is wanting to buy back all 21 full-time years under the new Reserve Force pension scheme and would like to finance it over 20 years (again we will assume that the "time" is avaialbe for the buyback). 
How much would he/she have to pay over the 20 years to "buy it back"?
 
Again, financing options are the same for both.

The difference lies in the old method where payment was based on 4% simple interest, using former earnings as the determinant.  Now it's based on inflated earnings with 7% compound interest.  A huge difference.
 
DAP, isn't there something about the treasury board looking again at this 7% compounded ?

Watercooler talk around this neck of the woods was that the 7% VS 4% thing was being reevaluated.
 
Geo:

There are always multiple rumours in flight.  I have heard some, but have never been able to track down facts to support them... so I don't post anything here.

Except for the rumour where I become the next CDS...
 
dapaterson said:
Except for the rumour where I become the next CDS...

Ooops, wrong thread, I didn't realize this was "My Private Dream" thread......coulda swore it was about Reserve Pension  ;D
 
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