Reservists Job Protection Superthread

[Greymatters]

Excellent, many thanks!

 

[AcornsRus]

....
Three, they removed the protection for those with civi jobs from the first reading (position holding, and penalties for break the law). Therefore this bill is really only for students.

I'm not sure why you say this.  Section 60H1 of the Act doesn't cover resumption of work, but it does refer to the NS Labour Standards Code. http://www.gov.ns.ca/legislature/legc/statutes/labourst.htm.  The Code already covers Resumption of Work under section 59g.

I suppose we just wait for the challenge - and a judge to interpret "required" leave and "Training." And I would imagine the bad publicity could have more teeth than a $5,000 fine.

 

[CombatMP265]

I'm not sure why you say this.  Section 60H1 of the Act doesn't cover resumption of work, but it does refer to the NS Labour Standards Code. http://www.gov.ns.ca/legislature/legc/statutes/labourst.htm.  The Code already covers Resumption of Work under section 59g.

I suppose we just wait for the challenge - and a judge to interpret "required" leave and "Training." And I would imagine the bad publicity could have more teeth than a $5,000 fine.

Yes it does cover resumption of work, but it does not cover position holding. Which means that when a reservist returns from tour it does not gaurantee they will be doing the same job as before. Therefore, while their civi employer has to hire them back, they are not bound to give them their same job and/or pay. That's the real issue.

Another thing cut out of the act was seniority. If you go on tour there is no garuntee that seniority and promotion merits will be held either.

Yes, bad publicity is an issue as demonstrated with the Major who worked for NB Power. However, this speaks to the bigger issue about "protection" legislation. My personal view is that protection legislation is there to do just that, protect. Were not to cater to companies, and while a cooperative and mutually beneficial relationship is the ideal to job protection, it is not the priority. The priority must be protecting reservists jobs in order to serve Canada and holding employers who squirm out of commitments to a high public standard. 

 

[AcornsRus]

.....Therefore, while their civi employer has to hire them back, they are not bound to give them their same job and/or pay. That's the real issue.

Another thing cut out of the act was seniority. If you go on tour there is no garuntee that seniority and promotion merits will be held either.

NS labour code section 59G says:

"59G (1) When an employee returns to work upon the expiry of a leave of absence taken pursuant to Section 59, 59A or 59B or returns to work pursuant to Section 59C, the employer shall permit the employee to resume work

(a) in the position held by the employee immediately before the leave began or, where that position is not available, in a comparable position with not less than the same wages and benefits; and

(b) with no loss of seniority or benefits accrued to the commencement of the leave."

I'm no expert at reading this stuff, but doesn't that cover what you were concerned about?

 

[CombatMP265]

NS labour code section 59G says:

"59G (1) When an employee returns to work upon the expiry of a leave of absence taken pursuant to Section 59, 59A or 59B or returns to work pursuant to Section 59C, the employer shall permit the employee to resume work

(a) in the position held by the employee immediately before the leave began or, where that position is not available, in a comparable position with not less than the same wages and benefits; and

(b) with no loss of seniority or benefits accrued to the commencement of the leave."

I'm no expert at reading this stuff, but doesn't that cover what you were concerned about?

No it doesn't cover what I was talking about. Reread those sections you quoted. They refer to pregnency leave and parental leave only. That quote has nothing to do with reserve leave.

 

[AcornsRus]

No it doesn't cover what I was talking about. Reread those sections you quoted. They refer to pregnency leave and parental leave only. That quote has nothing to do with reserve leave.

Yes it does. The Reservist section (60H) subsection 5 states:
Sections 59F to 60 apply mutatis mutandis to an employee who takes a leave of absence pursuant to this Section. 2006, c. 13, s. 9.

 

[CombatMP265]

I stand corrected

 

[Steel Badger]

When I went over to Bosnia in 03-04 I did so with the full support of OPSEU, and of my superintendant. I requested leave under the art. referrenced by Dglad.

We have, however, had ongoing issues with management over workers taking time off for trg. I have had several leaves revoked by management because the adult supervision decided that they didnt like feeling "forced" to do things by the union or by Ontario legislation. I have heard many similar complaints from across the province.

So far so good tho on my leave for TF 03-08. We shall see how it transpires.

Cheers


SB

 

[Robert McClelland]

A new group on facebook;
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=5510836659

and a petition;
http://www.petitiononline.com/jobprot/petition.html
To:  Canadian House of Commons

Canadian reservists frequently volunteer to serve our country in extended overseas missions. Unfortunately our country--with the exception of the provinces of Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Nova Scotia--does not recognize their sacrifice and some reservists return home only to face the unemployment line.

This situation is simply not fair to the men and women who put their lives on the line for their fellow Canadians.

Therefore we believe it's long overdue for the Canadian government to enact federal legislation that will protect the jobs of reservists who volunteer to serve in extended overseas missions.

 

[George Wallace]

Apparantly there is already a program in place to deal with this.  I should be getting a briefing on it sometime in the next week or two.  Everyone is supposed to get it.  It deals with Job protection for Reservists when they Deploy or are Tasked.

 

[George Wallace]

You may also want to look at/research:

The Canadian Forces Liaison Council (CFLC), which administers Canada’s reserve force employer support programme.

For more information on Canada’s employer support programmes for the Reserve Force, call the Canadian Forces Liaison Council toll free at
1-800-567-9908, or visit www.cflc.forces.gc.ca   

Or perhaps you would like to read more recent developments in Alliance.

CANFORGEN 090/04 ADMHRMIL 044 021818Z JUL 04
REINSTATEMENT IN CIVIL EMPLOYMENT deals with Public Safety Act, 2002 (Bill C-7).

 

[Greymatters]

Ive checked on this in BC, and the only guarantee is through a CF (or CAF) plan where your company voluntarily signs up saying they will guarantee your job will be waiting for you when you return.

 

[dapaterson]

Certain provinces have introduced legislation to protect Reserve employment.  That being said, there are caveats to attach to such an effort:

(1) The US experience suggets Reservists can suffer some discrimination in hiring, as employers do not wish to have the administrative burden of dealing with replacement workers or assuring an equivalent employment on their return from military duty.

(2) Since 1939 all Reserve full-time service has been on a voluntary basis - individuals have not been "called out on service" IAW the NDA.  Certain provisions may only apply if the Government elects to call out reservists, vice having them volunteer.  In that case, members volunteering may have no protection.

(3) Both carrots and sticks may be needed; providing some financial incentive to employers may facilitate the process.

 

[geo]

This has been discussed before on Army.ca BUT here goes,
The best job protection that the Gov't can provide is to make the hiring of reservists "irresistible".

1.  Quantify the special qualities that reservists bring to the job
2.  Provide a financial incentive for the employer to let reservists go take their courses, take predeployment training and deploy.  The employer has to reschedule or hire replacement staff - make it worth his while.  Provide a tax credit for the wages they will pay same said replacement.  Cover off the company benefits paid (health care, UIC, CPP, group health, etc).
3.  When the CF schedules a course..... run the course - stop cancelling courses at a couple of days from the date of departure.

 

[Haggis]

I don't think this will go far, for a couple of reasons:

1.  Employment Standards laws (i.e hours of work, OT, holidays, time off including "job protection") are a provincial responsibility.  Why do you think individual provinces are passing thier own laws?

2. GAP posted a letter he received here from Minister O'Connor, which rules out legislated job protection for exactly the reasons dapaterson voiced above.

 

[Robert McClelland]

Apparantly there is already a program in place to deal with this.  I should be getting a briefing on it sometime in the next week or two.  Everyone is supposed to get it.  It deals with Job protection for Reservists when they Deploy or are Tasked.

My understanding is that legislation was introduced in the House but nothing has been done with it and now it will die when Harper prorogues Parliament this fall.

 

[Korus]

The fact that we reservists volunteer for missions overseas is a very valid point, and exactly why job protection can not be effectively and fairly legislated for voluntary tours. It's nice to say that a private company should be obligated to give us our jobs back, but it's not that simple. Many companies can simply not function well if a skilled/vital employee ups and leaves for the year to year and a half it seems to take nowadays to do predeployment and a tour. That employee needs to be replaced in that time frame. What then happens to the replacement employee? Are they held on the line to be outsted when the reservist returns just so that they can have their position back, even though the returning reservist is now a year or more out of date in their trade/profession if it's not the same as what they did on the tour?

It's a big choice to volunteer to go on a tour, and in many ways it's exactly like getting another job. You have to leave a current job to take a new one, and then again have to find something new when the contract expires. It's tough sometimes, and from personal experience, it's not always easy to get back from a tour and think "ok, what now?", but that's just life.

That's also why mandatory job protection when volunteering would yield HUGE amounts of hiring discrimination against reservists, IMHO.

Just my $0.02 as a reservist who would like to go on another tour, but has to juggle a civilian career at the same time.

edited to add:

This has been discussed before on Army.ca BUT here goes,
The best job protection that the Gov't can provide is to make the hiring of reservists "irresistible".

1.  Quantify the special qualities that reservists bring to the job
2.  Provide a financial incentive for the employer to let reservists go take their courses, take predeployment training and deploy.  The employer has to reschedule or hire replacement staff - make it worth his while.  Provide a tax credit for the wages they will pay same said replacement.  Cover off the company benefits paid (health care, UIC, CPP, group health, etc).
3.  When the CF schedules a course..... run the course - stop cancelling courses at a couple of days from the date of departure.

I fully concur with what GEO posted, as quoted above, especially point number 3, which is a HUGE pet peeve of mine.

 

[geo]

Haggis,
As stated, the smartet thing the CF could do is to work out financial incentives with the revenue department.
That transcends labour laws and hits the business owner right in the pocketbook - where he'll understand.

 

[Haggis]

Haggis,
As stated, the smartet thing the CF could do is to work out financial incentives with the revenue department.
That transcends labour laws and hits the business owner right in the pocketbook - where he'll understand.

Agreed... in spades, Geo.  The CF, like all other departments, is funded by Treasury Board and, quite honestly, offering cash incentives to the employers of the small percentage  of Reservists who deploy each year isn't really a lot of money (depending on the size of the incentive, of course).  We're only talking about 2400 or so Reservists who deploy each year right now.  Once A'stan closes out, that number will fall down into the hundreds, mostly Air and Naval Reservists.

The problem lies in that DND/CF is always chronically underfunded to the point that:

a. something else will become a non-deliverable to support this (like some General's pet project), or;
b. other businesses will want cash incentives for thier "community minded' employees who volunteeer (like firefighters), or;
c. everyone will finally realize that it's simply cheaper to exclusively deploy the Reg F since they're already paid for.

 

[Spanky]

This has been suggested before and since the topic has been brought up again, here goes.  Why not set something up similar, in scope, to Maternity or Parental Leave.  The time lines are similar, and the employer is in the same situation re: replacing a key employee.  If the Feds threw in some extra incentive, I don't see how it would not work.