Resisting the Opposition’s Urge to Abandon the Afghan People

[armyvern]

What is the problem?
Let's inform people properly!
I think the problem is much simpler.

The people is uninformed because no one is able to formulate, in a clear and understandable way, the needs and benefis of staying there as well as to give a clear criteria of what is considered the "well-finished job" .

Are you able to do this?

What ordindary people see right NOW, is costly military expenses and regular arrivals of killed soldiers.

You think so eh??

How about you go ask the media then when they are going to start doing their jobs?? This is especially obvious in Quebec these days ...

I DO my job already, and I take evry opportunity I can to inform the uneducated as to the ACTUALITIES of the mission in Afghanistan.

What ordinary people are seeing right NOW, is a PERCEPTION of costly military expenses and regular arrivals of killed soldiers  ... because "REPORTERS" (thus the media) are more interested in non-reporting, bleeding and leading, and profit for their shareholders. Kid yourself not.. Their focus is on the body count of our fallen, and DIRECTLY influences the PERCEPTION in that ill-educated (but vocal) portion of the Candian population of whom I speak.

Isn't a reporters JOB to REPORT the FACTS??

Their absolute neglect to report on advances within Afghanistan (rebuilding - PRT - girls in school - women at work -  kids outside playing and flying kites - music heard in the souks and marketplaces - ALL DIRECTLY caused by those very military personnel doing their jobs), causes a LAZY Canadian public too BUSY to bother to pay attention to any other newssource except that MSM beamed in to their big screens TVs ... and when that MSM fails to report ALL the facts and details ... do not blame the soldier ... nor those who speak of the good ... look squarely at the media and ask ... WHY NOT?

People can explain our mission and it's complexities all they like, and they have, but when the media doesn't give it airtime, or gives it a mere soundbite ... that's the media determining the political future of this country. If you're OK with that -- fill your boots. This girl isn't.

 

[Flanker]

LAZY Canadian public too BUSY to bother to pay attention to any other newssource except that MSM beamed in to their big screens TVs

Let's not forget that LAZY Canadian public pays all these military expenses from its taxes.
So they might have reason...

Looking back to the world history, we won't see so much cases of active public support of foreign military operations.
It was always very difficult for soldiers and officers doing their jobs.
In particular, it is very difficult to return to your own country and see that nobody cares of that foreign war.

 

[armyvern]

Let's not forget that LAZY Canadian public pays all these military expenses from its taxes.
So they might have reason...

Looking back to the world history, we won't see so much cases of active public support of foreign military operations.
It was always very difficult for soldiers and officers doing their jobs.
In particular, it is very difficult to return to your own country and see that nobody cares of that foreign war.

Let's not forget that those Canadian soldiers ALSO pay taxes ... and DIE doing their jobs protecting that LAZY portion of the Canadian public too wrapped up in their daily business to either really give two shits or to properly inform themselves. they take the spoonfeeding that the MSM feeds them daily -- quite willingly.

Ensuring those soldiers have the best equipment possible in providing that protection is too much to ask??

Give me a fucking break already.

Many people care about that foreign war. Not NOBODY. I care. Soldiers care. Soldiers are volunteering to go there ... because they care ... and because we KNOW the good that we are doing. How dare you come on here and state that nobody cares?? Come to this town and watch the red shirts worn every Friday ... people do care!!

You are speaking of non-support for foreign wars in past history, obviously, from a Quebec perspective ... because, that statement is not borne out to be the experience outside of that particular province's borders.

You are an asshat. 

 

[Flanker]

Let's note that soldier's taxes aren't suffucient to make war.
And ordinary people is not as stupid as you might think.
It is not difficult to sold a merchandise if there is a real demand for it. However, it is diffucult to convince people to buy some unnecessary stuff.
We can call them lazy, stupid etc. but that is what we see actually.

In Soviet times, I talked to some soldiers returned from Afghanistan with the same problems.
People just did not undestand where they came from and what they did there.

 

[armyvern]

Let's note that soldier's taxes aren't suffucient to make war.
And ordinary people is not as stupid as you might think.
It is not difficult to sold a merchandise if there is a real demand for it. However, it is diffucult to convince people to buy some unnecessary stuff.
We can call them lazy, stupid etc. but that is what we see actually.

In Soviet times, I talked to some soldiers returned from Afghanistan with the same problems.
People just did not undestand where they came from and what they did there.

Are you really so misinformed and ill-educated as to Canada's mission in Afghanistan and what we are doing there, why, and under that particular United Nations mandate, that you are actually trying to draw comparisons between our mission and the Russian invasion of Afghanistan??

Because, if that's the case ... your tinfoil hat is in the mail ... and the media really has failed you on your TV screen. The facts of the mission are out there to be had ... Step back from your television and go forth and properly educate yourself ... you need it. Desperately.

 

[Flanker]

Are you really so misinformed and ill-educated as to Canada's mission in Afghanistan and what we are doing there, why, and under that particular United Nations mandate, that you are actually trying to draw comparisons between our mission and the Russian invasion of Afghanistan??

The mission goals were pretty the same and Russians were invited by the Afghan government.

But my point is following.
Foreign wars are rarely understood by population.
I do not see why the actual war should be an exception from this rule.

 

[armyvern]

The mission goals were pretty the same.
Russians were invited by the Afghan government.

WHAT!!??!!

Unfuckingbelieveable. I really can not believe that you just said that!!

Our mission goal ... was not/is not/has never been to invade Afghanistan and take over their government and expand Canadian territory. It has been to counter terrorism and terroristic acts that have resulted in the loss of civilian, allied and Canadian lives; further it has been to ensure that the Taliban, who harboured those terrorists, are prevented from regaining control of the now (thanks to soldiers) democratically elected (by Afghanistan's free citizens actually being allowed to voice their "VOTES") government of Afghanistan.

Until the Taliban is defeated, and stability restored so that the democratically elected government can continue in it's march to overturning decades of strife in that nation ... our mission is valid ... the citizens of that country realize this. When women can go to school, and teachers teach, and children play ... without fear of being decapitated for their daring to enjoy their freedom ... our mission in assisting them achieve these goals is valid.

Next time you go out to mark your ballot at the polling station, I suggest you think about that which you are advocating the people of Afghanistan be denied -- that same opportunity.

You really are lacking in the facts department aren't you??

IQ two points higher and we'd be issuing a diploma for graduating from fruit to vegetable.

 

[armyvern]

The mission goals were pretty the same and Russians were invited by the Afghan government.

But my point is following.
Foreign wars are rarely understood by population.
I do not see why the actual war should be an exception from this rule.

As to your edit which I have bolded ...

But your point is assinine.

The goals were not the same. The mission is in no way alike ... and the fact that foreign wars have sometimes been misunderstood by some of the population ... is exactly due to misinformation ... and the laziness of some people to educate themselves as to the facts of the war their soldiers are involved in. You are an ideal example.

You think it's OK to misunderstand this war simply because previous wars were misunderstood by some?? So this one should be no exception?? THAT is exactly the laziness that I spoke of earlier ... and the people not caring ... think exactly the way you do.

 

[Flanker]

WHAT!!??!!

Unfuckingbelieveable. I really can not believe that you just said that!!

Yes, that is what I said.
Soviet army also fought terrorists, built schools, freed women etc.

Are you surprised?

The only difference is that terrorists were largely supported and sponsored by United States and Pakistan.
So it was not so easy to fight them ...

 

[armyvern]

Yes, that is what I said.
Soviet army also fought terrorists, built schools, freed women etc.

Are you surprised?

You forgot some very important FACTS to finish off your sentence with in lieu of the "etc" that you did end it with ...

"with the ultimate goal of expanding their territory, enforcing their own government; a government where no elections would be required..."

:

Are you surprised that our mission is NOT the same.

Stick to the facts please; your rhethoric is revealing of only one thing ... and it's NOT a pretty picture.

 

[Flanker]

you forgot to finish off your sentence with ...

"with the ultimate goal of expanding their territory, enforcing their own government; a government where no elections would be required..."

First, there had never been a goal to expand their territory.
Second, Soviets supported the loyal EXISTING governement, exactly as the coalition is doing now.

Do you think the actual government (elected by 20% of population) has real power over the country?
If yes, who all these guys that coalition forces fight every day? Terrorists? Too much for terrorists...
May be just native people that do not want foreigners in their country?

 

[armyvern]

First, there had never been a goal to expand their territory.
Second, Soviets supported a loyal EXISTING governement, exactly as the coalition do now.

Do you think the actual government has real power over the country?

OMFG ... go back to school.

Soviets certainly did "support" a loyal existing government ... after they put him there didn't they?? Loyal to the Soviets being the key-word in your sentence. I bet you the multitudes of Afghanistans citizens of the day ... certainly thank him too for inviting the Soviets down for the block party and schwarma fest which followed that loyal "support."  :

Do I think the government has real power over the country?? Well, they are certainly on their way aren't they?? The Taliban is out ... the population has their voice ...

and if you think for one second that leaving them now will allow them to remain holding that power and making those advances towards democray... you are warped.

 

[Flanker]

and if you think for one second that leaving them now will allow them to remain holding that power and making those advances towards democray... you are warped.

That is what I have just said above. And you seems to confirm it.
The actual LOYAL government is powerless without coalition's support.

P.S. Hint. Read on where Karzai came from

 

[The Bread Guy]

From a news release announcing a bit of a "shadow cabinet shuffle" by Taliban Jack, his caucus's three priorities, and the trio who will likely be pushing the AFG mission change agenda hard...

(....)

Layton outlined his caucus’s three priorities for the coming Parliament: ending the combat mission in Afghanistan, tackling the climate change crisis and closing the prosperity gap by making life more affordable for everyday families.

“Canada must set out a new direction to help the people of Afghanistan with reconstruction, aid and peace,” said Layton. He announced Dawn Black (New Westminster-Coquitlam) will continue to serve as NDP Defence Critic and Alexa McDonough (Halifax) will serve as Peace Advocate. Paul Dewar (Ottawa Centre) will become Foreign Affairs Critic.

(...)

We're warned....

 

[armyvern]

That is what I have just said above. And you seems to confirm it.
The actual LOYAL government is powerless without coalition's support.

P.S. Hint. Read on where Karzai came from

You seem to forget though that Karzai also went on to win an ELECTION; voted in by the citizens of Afghanistan.

With regards to your last edit (boy you do love to edit your posts after I've responded) to add in more bullshit ...

It is not the native populace that coalition forces are fighting every day as per your last assinine edit:

If yes, who all these guys that coalition forces fight every day? Terrorists? Too much for terrorists...
May be just native people that do not want foreigners in their country?

There are Taliban, and then of course, there are the foreign fighters (ie insurgents) streaming in from places like Pakistan, Chechnyea, etc etc. If you think that they are the locals (a very small minority are) ... you really do need to further educate yourself.

Want a local perspective ... ??

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/66533/post-619649.html#msg619649

 

[larry Strong]

What the hell is a "Peace Advocate"?

 

[Danjanou]

What the hell is a "Peace Advocate"?

Something fancy and important sounding to keep Alexa quiet in case she wants her old job back. 8)

 

[Flanker]

You seem to forget though that Karzai also went on to win an ELECTION; voted in by the citizens of Afghanistan.

Democracy is the power of majority. Right?
Just ask yourself, why a "democratically elected" president is so impotent in his own country.

The response is quite evident. After being elected by 10% of population or so, he has no support nor authority among the population.
Do not call this democracy and election. As of now, it is a puppet show supported by coalition forces.

But I agree, it is very simple to close your eyes and consider the rest of population terrorists and Taliban, Chechens etc.

 

[Command-Sense-Act 105]

Oh, Flanker.  You seem to have a lot of promise here and some good insights, but you are not following a good path - just an observation from a fellow poster/member, not a "DS".

If you bring something up as a justification for something you say, you can't recant and refuse to discuss it on the basis that it offers "no relevance" to the discussion.  If so, why did you mention it?

Your shotgun approach on the boards is admirable - you are very passionate about what you are saying.  However, some facts and justification will help you.  Poking other posters with a stick to try and draw a response, not so much...

 

[McG]

Lets stop the name calling boys & girls.  Next one to cross the line goes up the warning ladder.
If one of your posts is missing, you may be the problem.