Role of Officer vs job of NCM [Merged]

[kincanucks]

No while the average age of a ROTP cadet is probably 22, the average age of a UTPNCM cadet is probably more in the 30s.

 

[HangEmHigh]

Well that makes me feel a little better about going that way.  Thanks for the advice!

 

[shadow]

I have something to add to your choices.
I agree that ROTP is probably an unlikely choice at your age.
However I would like to inform you that if you decided to do the UTPNCM route, you must serve your first Basic Engagement, become journeyman (QL5) qualified and promoted to Cpl before you can even apply.  This means that it will take at least 4 years to get into the program, then another 3 years before you've graduated from University and commissioned to Officer.  This is assuming that you get your QL5 within your first 4 years, and you get accepted into UTPNCM your first year of applying (which does not happen that often).  Some people apply over and over again and never get accepted.
That's twice as long to become an Officer as if you did the Reserve-then-DEO route and it's putting a lot of faith into the system as opposed to going out there and getting what you want yourself! 
Good Luck!!
Shadow

 

[Fideo]

Guys whats ROTP (Recruit Officer Training Program ???) Taking a guess......thanks!

 

[aesop081]

Guys whats ROTP (Recruit Officer Training Program ???) Taking a guess......thanks!

Regular Officer Training Program

 

[Fideo]

Regular Officer Training Program

thanks aesop!

 

[HangEmHigh]

I have something to add to your choices.
I agree that ROTP is probably an unlikely choice at your age.
However I would like to inform you that if you decided to do the UTPNCM route, you must serve your first Basic Engagement, become journeyman (QL5) qualified and promoted to Cpl before you can even apply.  This means that it will take at least 4 years to get into the program, then another 3 years before you've graduated from University and commissioned to Officer.  This is assuming that you get your QL5 within your first 4 years, and you get accepted into UTPNCM your first year of applying (which does not happen that often).  Some people apply over and over again and never get accepted.
That's twice as long to become an Officer as if you did the Reserve-then-DEO route and it's putting a lot of faith into the system as opposed to going out there and getting what you want yourself! 
Good Luck!!
Shadow

Thanks Shadow!

That does put things into perspective for me.  So the "competition" for getting into UTPNCM is rather fierce I take it? 

It looks as though my train of thought has come full circle - as you have said "going out there" and getting it myself will be the quickest way to getting what I want.  (although more expensive for me... would it be worth it for the sake of becoming an officer 4 years earlier?  Probably I think.)

Cheers! 

 

[shadow]

Don't quote me on this, maybe someone out there can confirm, but I was under the impression that reservists now can be reimbursed for part of their tuition?.  You can also become a reserve Officer Cadet while you are in school (do the Officer training in the summers) and commissioned once you graduate.  Then you could try and component transfer to the Regular Force from the Reserves.  Also, these days a lot of Reserve courses are equivalent to Reg Force courses, so you may not have to do some of your phase training over again when you transfer/join.

Yes, UTPNCM is fierce, but not impossible (I got in  ).  You go through the same testing/interviews as if you were joining ROTP, then you are merited against other members of the military as opposed to other civilians.  So one year you could be up against Master Corporals with tons of leadership experience, university courses and tours overseas, and if they appear to have more Officer potential, then they are placed higher on the list.  Often the Personnel Selection Officers won't place you as high as you should be the first year, because they want to see if you will apply again next year, and if you've improved on anything from your first interview. (This confirms to them that Officer is something you really want, not something your friends dared you to apply for  )

Cheers,
Shadow

 

[Gouki]

I thought I would give something to think about .. Of course kincanucks is right about ROTP however .. my mother is in ROTP, last year and currently in her BOTC. She is 42 years old..

However they have given her a hard time about it (especially in IAP) but so far the instructors seem to be treating her fairly. But she can testify to them looking for young minds/bodies to shape and mold, however she has toughed through the age difference..

So .. it's not impossible

 

[kincanucks]

I am assuming that your mother is going ROTP/Undergrad (Civie U) and not to RMC?  I should have clarified that it is possible to get to go to civie U under the ROTP at any age but the chances of getting into RMC were very slim at later ages.

 

[Gouki]

Oh yes, she is going to civvie university, she was told in no uncertain terms that RMC was out of the question

 

[FastEddy]

Considering your present Posting/Assignment, I would imagine you are in a position to accurately provide a statistical over view of the CAF.s (Army) Permanant Force.  1. Total applications Rec'd 2. Total applicants
enrolled(all Branch's inclusive). 3. Totals of rejected applications by group due to Health, Education, Others.
for at least the last 12 months or the year of 2004.

If you are unable, could you please supply a link that this information would be available

 

[jmackenzie_15]

Two simple questions:

Is it possible to go from being an NCO (Mcpl or Sgt +) and being comissioned as an officer ?
Is it also a requirement to have a degree or whatever the university requirements are to accomplish this?

 

[Michael OLeary]

You may want to start by reviewing this thread:

UP FROM THE RANKS! (a lengthy and very worthwhile thread discussing officer entry programs, from a starting point of view considering prior service as a Non-Commissioned Member (NCM)) -- http://army.ca/forums/threads/23230.0.html

 

[blueboy]

Yes it is. I did it myself back in the early 90's after joining as an aeroengine tech I went back to college, then to university. Upon successful completion I was commissioned as a Lt within the Security Branch. I am no longer in the CF and have moved onto greener pastures with the Vancouver Police Dept.

 

[Jay4th]

I just spent an hour reading the historic and monumental thread Micheal suggested previously.  It should almost be required reading at recruiting centers.  It should also qualify as  post secondary education itself   At least for those who read it in its entirety.

 

[blueboy]

The up through the rank system works for those of us in the Police world. It allows the officer to relate to the troops easier as he has already gone through some of the  same experiences.

 

[jmackenzie_15]

Yes it is. I did it myself back in the early 90's after joining as an aeroengine tech I went back to college, then to university. Upon successful completion I was commissioned as a Lt within the Security Branch. I am no longer in the CF and have moved onto greener pastures with the Vancouver Police Dept.

But thats exactly what im wondering , I meant is it possible to be offerred a comission as an NCO, without any post secondary education? Or is it an absolute night and day requirement that one must have postsec/education before they can be an officer, in the CF, ever ?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Bit of an odd ball question.

I guess in hollywood there is a theme that officers  who come from the ranks are sometimes treated differently (in a negitive way) by their fellow officers who never served as NCMs.  Does that stereotype have any truth or is it all hollywood crap?

 

[Michael OLeary]

But thats exactly what im wondering , I meant is it possible to be offerred a comission as an NCO, without any post secondary education? Or is it an absolute night and day requirement that one must have postsec/education before they can be an officer, in the CF, ever ?

Yes, you could be offered a commission without a degree. It sometimes happens to Master Warrant Officers and Chief Warrant Officers towards the end of their careers.

For a younger NCO, theoretically it's possible, and who knows what changes to commissioning plans may occur in the furture. HOWEVER, that being said, the odds of it happening to any one individual are slim, progressing realistically to ZERO.  And the likelihood remains that any such commissioning plan will include the requirement to complete a degree.  Using the slight possibility of being offered a commission without a degree or degree requirement as the basis of a career plan would be about as solid as using only Lotto 6/49 as your retirement income plan, or even less so.