ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]

[da1root]

Good Day,

I apologize for the delay, I have followed up on this query today and was told that I would get a response tomorrow.  Hopefully I will have something to quote policy wise by end of day tomorrow.

Cheers,
Sgt Laen

 

[da1root]

Good Day,

The reference that came back from the Offers Cell is using CANFORGEN 002/14, it is stated that is why the rank of OCdt is offered.

Cheers,
Sgt Laen

 

[Calvillo]

I understand that those studying and graduating from RMC will have to serve for 5 years / 60 months ((2*4*9)-(4*3)) after graduation. What about applicants from Quebec? Since secondary education in Quebec is only 5 years, applicants need to spend one or two years at CMR St-Jean before continuing at RMC. No matter whether it is 1+4 or 2+3, Quebec applicants spend 5 years in the military education system - instead of 4 for RoC applicants.

Does this mean that Quebec applicants have extra 15 months ((2*9)-3) service obligation compared to those from the rest of Canada?

 

[Blackadder1916]

Your question is answered by DAOD 5049-1, Obligatory Service.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-5000/5049-1.page#set

Calculation of Obligatory Service

6.5  The duration of a course of study is counted in calendar months to the nearest half-month. Obligatory service will normally be incurred when a course of study is six months or longer, and will be calculated on the basis of two months' service for each month of education or training, using the start and end dates of the course of study.

Example:

Course of study starts 6 Sep 1998 and ends 21 Apr 2000

Obligatory service will be calculated from 1 Sep 1998 to 15 Apr 2000 (rounded to the nearest half-months) = 19.5 months

Total period of obligatory service = 39 months (19.5 x 2) starting 22 Apr 2000

6.6  The maximum period of obligatory service that can be incurred for a course of study leading to a specific qualification is 60 months. Where further education or training is required to attain an additional specific qualification, that education or training incurs obligatory service. The total period of obligatory service may, therefore, exceed 60 months. (See the heading entitled Simultaneous Periods of Obligatory Service).

6.7  For example, postgraduate training and the Regular Officer Training Plan (ROTP) are programs that each incur obligatory service. In cases where postgraduate training immediately follows training completed under the ROTP, the periods of obligatory service will be cumulative and the total period will exceed 60 months.

 

[Bradford_Maxwell]

So, I'm not sure if I'm doing the whole "forum" thing right.

However, I experienced quite the issue when I applied for RMC.

I applied in September of 2015, as I should have since I am now in Grade 12 and was interested in attending RMC for a long time. I went and spoke to a recruiter, where I was told I'd need to have laser eye surgery to make it past the medical exam (I had terrible eyesight). So I took their word for it and went to get laser eye surgery, at 16 years old, on December 18th, 2015. Come January 6th, 2016, I was told by the man who was doing my medical exam (who saw the blood in my eye from the surgery and inquired as to why I had blood inside of my eye) I was unable to continue with my application process, even though the medical exam was the last stage of my process, as I could not apply for Canadian Forces until 6 months post surgery. I was not informed of this by my recruiting centre and I was very disappointed. The man who did the medical exam told me I wouldn't be able to apply this year and I should try again next year because of timing. Now, I have some questions about this situation, if anyone is able to answer them.

1. How likely is it someone who applies a second time for ROTP/RMC gets accepted? Is my file going to reflect the great amount of interest the Captain who did my interview had for me? I ask this because I am considering doing a 5th year of high school, where I would just wait out the application process AGAIN. The other option for me is to drop the idea and go for a civ. university.

2. What kind of things could I do to make myself more marketable next year, in case the likelihood decreases when you apply a second time?

To answer your questions, you should keep applying and work on yourself physically and mentally. I didn't make it my first time applying because I couldn't get an FBI background check in time. However, I received an offer this time because I applied again and didn't lose hope. You should get a job, go to university, and work hard there to increase your chances. Simply going to a civilian university isn't "dropping the idea", its just continuing your studies and showing you're a good potential candidate. You should also be doing community work and taking leadership roles if you can find any. I only had a 75-80% average according to my interviewer, but my extracurricular activities and work history probably pushed me to be high enough on the merit list to get an early offer.

Best of luck.

 

[Pusser]

If it helps, I applied for ROTP in my last year of high school.  I did not get accepted (my marks weren't great).  I went to university on my own dime and applied again the following year.  I was accepted the second time around (my mid term university marks were much better than my high school marks).  The CF then simply picked up the cost of my tuition and books and started paying me a salary.  I remained at the university where I had already started.

In short, keep applying until you get accepted.

On another note, although it may seem reasonable to not enroll someone within six months of laser eye surgery, I'm a little surprised that you cannot continue with the application process as by the time you are actually enrolled, the six months will have passed.  If I were you, I would ask if your application process can continue pending an eye exam before enrollment (talk to the captain who expressed interest).  Also from my experience:  I was considered overweight when I applied (i.e. too heavy for enrollment), but my application continued and when the offer came, it was conditional on passing the medical.  I had to report back to the Recruiting Centre to be weighed (I passed) and I was sworn in about two weeks later.

 

[Onegin]

I am in a similar situation and was wondering if anybody could provide some insight.

I am a PRes Master Seaman (Marine engineering type) with an undergraduate degree. I was recently given an early acceptance offer for ROTP into an engineering occupation. I know that my pay as an NCM will be protected (as per CBIs discussed) but what about rank while I attend university? I found these two references that seem to contradict themselves in my particular case. I'm going to find out soon enough but still curious if anyone has been in a similar situation.

CFAO 9-12(20)
"Rank and Promotion. A candidate will be enrolled as an officer cadet
and remain in that rank until commissioned on completion of academic
training, having met the requirements for promotion and commissioning m
accordance with CFAO 11-6, Commissioning and Promotion Policy -- Officers
Regular Force."

CFAO 11-6(22)
"An applicant who possesses special qualifications gained through
civilian or former military training or experience, shall be enrolled in
the rank of officer cadet and may immediately be commissioned in the rank
of second lieutenant and promoted to such rank or granted such acting rank
as is authorized by NDHQ."

 

[sidemount]

You'll be an officer cadet and then promoted to 2Lt apon graduation.
Just being an NCM does not give you special qualifications. Nor does your current degree seeing as how you are being sent for another.

The special qualifications are more for doctors and such that are already qualified to do the job.

 

[Onegin]

That's what I thought thank you for confirming.  :nod:

 

[sidemount]

Up until last Jan it used to be that MCpls were promoted to Lt upon grad but that doesnt happen anymore either....but hey at least you get to keep your MCpl pay haha

 

[Onegin]

Did you find that information in a CANFORGEN?

And yes, I am infinitely grateful to be keeping my pay. With the rank I thought there might be a case for special qualifications because I am going from NCM Mar Eng to MSE Officer.

 

[sidemount]

Yes its in a canforgen around the jan feb 2015 time frame. Talks about ncm to officer and ranks upon commissioning. Id post it but I dont have dwan access right now.

It would be nice. I went from an EME trade to an EME officer and all that effected my new rank was previous rank for pay and I am lucky enough to be grandfathered under old rules, Ill be an Lt once I am done school as I was a MCpl as well before the switch.

 

[seanm]

Hi I am new to this forum.

Just wondering I accepted a conditional offer to RMC for EME. I was wondering if it is too late to go through Carlton University while still doing the ROTP. I have been accepted to Carleton for electrical engineering. I was going to write an email to my actual recruiting officer tomorrow with a few question but I did not want to sound stupid or seem like I am backing out of my offer which I accepted (which I am not, but if possible to go to a civilian university instead I might prefer).

Also when would BMOQ start this summer for me?

Thanks,

Sean

 

[da1root]

Good Day,

As per the "READ FIRST" thread (http://navy.ca/forums/threads/115341.0) we cannot answer questions about your application or file, this includes switching from ROTP to Civilian University and when your BMOQ course would start.  Please contact your File Manager.

Best Regards,
Sgt Laen

 

[Maple98]

A shame no one replied to this in time, but for future applicants wanting the answer...

While applying for ROTP/RMC or, I believe, the CAF in general, they only want to know your last COMPLETED year. So, when I applied I was IN grade 12, so I put down grade 11 as my education. I remember there being a spot to write down my date of graduation though, so don't worry they'll understand you are on track to graduate high school and get your diploma.

 

[Maple98]

During my process (in 2015-2016) I was told that I would "get what I get". For my online application I put that I would only go to a Civilian University, and yet I was offered a spot at RMC Kingston (which I am now very excited about). So, from my experience you pretty much get offered whatever they want you to do.

 

[DAA]

During my process (in 2015-2016) I was told that I would "get what I get". For my online application I put that I would only go to a Civilian University, and yet I was offered a spot at RMC Kingston (which I am now very excited about). So, from my experience you pretty much get offered whatever they want you to do.

Yup, that statement, which few seem to read, is part of the application process and under Tab # 2 at the RMC Portal when you initial apply.  Simply put and right from the application upload page......

"As an ROTP applicant, you will first be considered for admission to the Military Colleges, and if found suitable for admission, you will be offered to attend the Military Colleges. Therefore, please review the available degrees and make your selection accordingly. Choose “other” if your preferred degree is only available at a civilian university"

 

[TwoTonShackle]

If I failed a class at university while under ROTP program what are the repercussions.  Normally this wouldn't be a huge deal as one could retake the class next year at their own cost.  But assuming they wouldn't be able to graduate in time as the course is a prerec for three others...

I understand that extra time is unpaid,  and unpaid for.  However does that include the whole year or just the one semester that I would be in school to catch up(ie not the summer...).  If that's the case would I be able to get a job for that time.

    You would have to submit an Academic Recovery Plan to the SEM indicating what course you failed, how it will impact you and what you suggest your next course of action would be, (i.e. retake the class at your own expense).  If the class is a prerequisite for multiple classes, is not offered in any other format (online, another institution etc...) you would have top detail this in your ARP and state what actions you would be taking.  You may have to take the one course again in the next calendar year while working through the BTL/ULO office that supports you.  all this would be yayed/nayed by the SEM.  If you need another year, your graduation date would be adjusted by message, you would still be paid and that time would count against your obligatory time owed.  However, sneaking thing is the references about time owed back.  It can not go over 60 months, (2 months per subsidized month), and the months you work prior to graduation will count against it.  The count however is chronological, so if you were to owe back 68 months, and worked for 4 months prior graduation, you would still accumulate those months of obligatory, (34 months incurred - 4 months worked so new total 30 months, 34 months incurred, 64 months owed - Max 60 months).

  Something similar happened to me, but it was medical.  I was going to miss 4-6 weeks due to surgery and I could not afford to miss that much time with 6 classes and 6 labs.  with the nature of my program being year long blocks, i had to defer a year.  All documented and approved through ARPs.

 

[tessa.vanz]

I'm not sure if anyone can help me; I just received and accepted my offer for ROTP to continue my BScN (Nursing) at Trent University.  Our course selection will occur while I'm on BMOQ, and while I will always have a spot in all of my required courses, electives can be competitive as well as certain time slots.  Will I be able to register for my courses on the day registration opens? I know from this year that some classes and time slots can fill up in about 30 minutes after registration has opened.

Any insight would be much appreciated!
Tessa

 

[Pusser]

I'm not sure if anyone can help me; I just received and accepted my offer for ROTP to continue my BScN (Nursing) at Trent University.  Our course selection will occur while I'm on BMOQ, and while I will always have a spot in all of my required courses, electives can be competitive as well as certain time slots.  Will I be able to register for my courses on the day registration opens? I know from this year that some classes and time slots can fill up in about 30 minutes after registration has opened.

Any insight would be much appreciated!
Tessa

You have two options, both of which you should pursue:

1)  Contact the university, explain the situation and see if you can pre-register; also

2)  Explain this to your BMOQ staff and ask them for time off during the course to register (I presume you can do this on-line, so you wouldn't miss much).  It's in everyone's best interests for you to be able to do this, so they should be supportive.

If you already have contact with your University Liaison Officer (ULO), it would be good to engage him/her as he/she has a vested interest in you academic progress.  It wouldn't hurt to engage the recruiting centre in this either.  They may be able to advise the Recruit School or get you in contact with your ULO.

The element in your favour is that your military duty for the next few years is to attend school and do as well as possible.  Not allowing you to register properly is counter-productive.  Hopefully, everyone will understand and support you on this.

I have given you some options here to pursue, but don't expect everything to happen for you.  As long as you approach this professionally (i.e. ask politely, don't whine - it's not about what's best for you, but rather what's best for the CAF), no one will give you a hard time for asking.  However, other people have other things to do, so your priorities may not match theirs.  Therefore, you need to stay on top of this.  You're going to be an officer.  Officers are expected to look after themselves (and others, but that comes later).

Good luck.