Russia warns U.S. over Czech missile defence base

[tomahawk6]

In addition to the Daryal radar network there are the Hen House network of AD radars which are capable of tracking incoming missiles.

As one can see there are gaps in the radar coverage and existing sites may have technical/power issues that keep them offline for periods of time.

 

[Mike Baker]

Seems that North Korea is also warning the U.S. over their missile plan. See here.

 

[tomahawk6]

No bully likes his potential victim to be prepared to defend themself. No missile shield means no one can defend against a missile attack or the threat of attack. The argument of the left is that the system doesnt work. If it doesnt work the Russians wouldnt be complaining. In fact they would like to encourage us to waste our money. Instead they know ABM works and even a limited system is defense against a limited attack or even a mistaken missile launch. If we cant stop nations like North Korea or Iran from getting nuclear weapons then a defensive system is the way to go.Both countries are neglecting their people in their drive to have nuclear weapons and internal turmoil cannot be ignored.

 

[Mike Baker]

+1 T6. The only real way to stop them by not attacking them is to have an ABM.

 

[MarkOttawa]

A guest-post at Daimnation!:

Bush has 25 poodles
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/009674.html

Also:

Missile misrepresentation
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/009653.html

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Greymatters]

The latest news article on this topic...

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/070704/world/russia_us_eu_defence

Russia threatens to put missiles in Kaliningrad region if US puts missiles in central Europe.  Looks like the cold war took a few years of vacation but is back in business...

 

[Mike Baker]

There goes the neighbourhood, again.

 

[JackD]

The fact that missiles could be reintroduced in the Kalingrad region shows that Putin's rhetoric is meaningless. Having been there myself, there is little to worry about. Due to the massive toxic wastes generated  by the 62 years of Soviet and Russian presence in that region, the threat of missiles being replaced in Kalningrad (if they even left there) is a greater threat to the operators, than to Europe.

 

[Greymatters]

???

You'll have to explain that in more detail - how does toxic waste equal meaningless rhetoric?

 

[JackD]

okkk. One was a flippant statement regarding the degradation of the environment within many of the regions of eastern/central Europe - the other "meaningless rhetoric" is in regard to his statement that he will re-introduce these missiles to this region - as they are probably still in the area - as the launchers were mobile ones - and as well, that this proposed anti-missile base in Poland is a threat to Russia - I doubt that any antimissile missile system can react  to such an immediate launch should Russia choose to do so. Look at the geographical location of Khalningrad - it is the heart of the Baltic region

 

[Mike Baker]

Russia suspends participation in treaty.

 

[tomahawk6]

Russia suspends participation in treaty.

Much ado about nothing. On a side note the Russians are deploying the  S-400 Triumf air defense system around Moscow. It is definitely a significant improvement in ABM capability.

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Grumble-Gargoyle.html

The first missile added to the system is the 48N6DM (Dalnaya - long range), a long range weapon with a cited range of 215 nautical miles, intended to kill AWACS, JSTARS and other high value assets. Further details of this weapon remain to be disclosed.

 

[Kirkhill]

Sergei Markov, the Kremlin-connected head of the Moscow-based Institute for Political Research said the move to impose a moratorium on the CFE was the Kremlin's signal that Russia will not be bullied.

"There are people who don't want Russia getting up from its knees, who are pushing it back, who are saying 'You are weak, you lost,' but Russia is resisting that," he said

From the article that Mike Baker posted.

One theory pertaining to the initiation of WW2 suggests that it was made easier because most Germans didn't feel they had lost the war.  They hadn't been subjected to the devastation that France and Belgium saw or even that Britain tasted with the shore bombardments.  Most people lived in the same houses they did before the war.  They hadn't lost.  They were betrayed - in their minds - by the Kaiser or by the Prussian General Staff or by the Communists.


Russia and Russians?  Also not defeated.  Betrayed by Gorbachev.  Or at least that is the story for a good part of the populace......


And worse ..... Hitler didn't have a source of ready cash.

I don't see WWIII or V or WWI or whatever - but I do see some Russians wanting to re-exert their birthright to everything from the Elbe to Kamchatka and from the Arctic to the (unattained) Indian Ocean.  Economics, Politics or Force.

 

[JackD]

From what my Russian friends say in regard to their government  (I should say 'imply' - no-one can 'say' anymore it seems), there is a bigger 'disconnect' between the average Russian and their government than you would find in - certainly Poland - where the government are buffoons - and by far - Canada. It seems that in Central and Eastern Europe there is a return to aristocracy. Normal people live their lives, the aristocracy lives their lives. Is Russia a threat? Yes - not because of policies but because of the ineptness of the Russian way of doing things. There are many Chernobyls waiting to happen. Environmental degradation is common and that effects everyone far more than controversies over nuclear weapons. Honestly, there is a different mentality here in Central and Eastern Europe - People will dump their garbage over the fence and then complain about the garbage dumped over the fence. Teachers will be extremely unfair, and then afterwards when exams results have been revoked and exams needlessly repeated, be praised for teaching so well. The government will set aside millions to build a new airport but will not fix the potholes within the patches within the potholes in the road going to that airport... in other words the whole lot - from a western perspective - are crazy.

 

[Kirkhill]

Thanks JackD for the upbeat summary.

I would rather face a mob than a disciplined force.  It doesn't sound as if discipline is a Russian strong suit, unlike Hitler's lot.  Must be that cultural thing that Edward Campbell keeps harping on about. 


The only problem I see is if the Russian "Aristocracy" starts acquiring sufficient like-minded individuals to impose that discipline.  Not to beat MY Gazprom drum too loudly but a few days ago I saw a CBC documentary on the Gazprom - a community above the arctic circle with modern apartments, Ikea interiors, buses that run on time and happy employees.  The things you can do with money. 

Add to the mix the fact that the Russian Parliament has authorized Gazprom to raise its own armed PSC security force to guard its infrastructure - then take a look at the network of  fields, pipelines, refineries, offices and towns that constitute Gazprom "Infrastructure".  It will likely need a very large, very happy and very well paid Security Force to protect that lot from the "peasantry".

What happens when they wish to protect their "infrastructure" beyond their borders - in places like Kazakhstan, Poland, Britain or even Canada (where they are tied in with an LNG project for Quebec - building an LNG terminal)?

 

[JackD]

What they do is hire lawyers - the biggest threat to mankind that there ever was or will be. A friend of mine observed that here, bus shelters are regularly trashed, items are stolen, vandalism is common and graffiti is everywhere. However, there is a gas terminal down the road from me beside a MacDonald's(but on what used to be parkland). The tank-transporters sit there overnight. No fence, no nothing - no vandalism, no graffiti. It is owned by Russian interests. There is a former Daiwoo autoplant in this city that is now owned by Russian interests. It is mostly idle and produces nothing but stays in business. Again no vandalism, no graffiti. Why is that?

 

[Kirkhill]

What they do is hire lawyers - the biggest threat to mankind that there ever was or will be.

Amen Brudda.

As to the rest - you would seem to be better placed to know than me. 

Cheers.

 

[JackD]

A fascinating place still Poland.. Central Europe as well. perplexing and maddening too - especially if you try driving around here. I do urge you to visit it though - the food has taste, the beer is good.... but you know - for all the faults and idiocies found in Canada  (mostly connected with governments and institutes of higher learning - and minor compared to that found here) - it is the finest country in the world - and the best functioning.

 

[oligarch]

How democratic is this, though? 65% in the Czech Republic oppose this shield, and do not believe in the proposed threat

1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7WjSo-qOq8

2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC-vqotMK1g

3) http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-05/14/content_8164713.htm

4) http://www.ceskenoviny.cz/news/index_view.php?id=312240

 

[old medic]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-czechs28-2008nov28,0,5191296.story


Czech Senate backs U.S. antimissile plan
Associated Press
November 28, 2008

Reporting from Prague, Czech Republic -- The upper chamber of the Czech Parliament on Thursday approved a deal with Washington to accept a U.S. missile defense installation.

The deal still needs the approval of the lower chamber, where the vote is expected to be close because the governing coalition has too few seats to guarantee passage. The vote there is not expected before the end of the year.

The proposed missile defense system calls for a tracking radar in the Czech Republic and 10 interceptor missiles in Poland as part of a shield designed to protect the region from possible attacks from Iran.

The Czech Senate approved the two treaties involved in the deal: the main bilateral agreement allowing the United States to build a radar base near Prague and a complementary pact that deals with the legal status of U.S. soldiers to be deployed at the base.

"It is good news for us, Europe and our NATO allies," Foreign Minister Karel Schwarzenberg said.

For each treaty, 49 senators voted in favor and 31 voted against.

Parliamentary ratification is also needed in Poland.

Russia is fiercely opposed to the plans, saying U.S. military installations in former Soviet satellites threaten its security.

It recently threatened to install short-range missiles close to European Union borders in response to the U.S. plans. Russian President Dmitry Medvedev later suggested that, if Washington were to halt its plans, Russia would do the same.

The administration of President-elect Barack Obama has not commented on the deals, brokered under President Bush.

Most Czech opposition parties are against the missile defense plan and demand a nationwide referendum on the issue.

Jan Tamas, an organizer of numerous public protests against the radar, called Thursday's vote "a major setback."

"I believe this day will be remembered as Black Thursday in the history in our country," he said.