Scary black guns for legal sale.

[Jarnhamar]

Looks good, Probably has a good shoulder kick ala FN C1

It has a folding stock for one handed firing  ;D

 

[Jed]

Ahhnold would like it. He would need one for each hand though. 

 

[Furniture]

It's too bad the SCAR was deemed prohibited.  And strange too how the ACR is just restricted.

I'm thinking of picking up the XCR-M in .308 

After dealing with weird range rules, range elitism and also range cancellations when it's not an open range having  non-restricted rifles is really appealing to me.

I have an XCR-L and wouldn't trade it for a night with Natalie Portman. It's fun to shoot, and with an allen key and a minute I can change from .223 for plinking to 6.8SPC for deer.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Is the short barrel XCR in the picture I posted legal in Canada? 

 

[Dissident]

Legal, but restricted.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Is the short barrel XCR in the picture I posted legal in Canada?

The XCR-M in the picture is a restricted firearm.

The ones sold in Canada, by Wolverine, have a longer barrel and are non-restricted.

I have an XCR-L and wouldn't trade it for a night with Natalie Portman. It's fun to shoot, and with an allen key and a minute I can change from .223 for plinking to 6.8SPC for deer.

The XCR-L is a restricted firearm, called the Micro Pistol. I hope a person is not out hunting deer with a restricted firearm.

 

[Illegio]

Robinson XCR-L

Only one of those varieties is the Micro Pistol, which if not prohibited due to barrel/overall length, is almost certainly restricted. The XCR-type class, however, is non-restricted. Hunt away.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Robinson XCR-L

Only one of those varieties is the Micro Pistol, which if not prohibited due to barrel/overall length, is almost certainly restricted. The XCR-type class, however, is non-restricted. Hunt away.

Seen. The only XCR-L listed in the FRT database, where I got my info from, is the micropistol. It's restricted, not prohibited.

However, I see Wanstall's was selling a non-restricted version also (the one pictured).

Strange the XCR-M would be listed by model letter and not the complete L series. :dunno:

 

[Jarnhamar]

I've never seen Wanstall's site before, pretty neat.  The Kel Tec Sub 2000 9mm looks like a lot of fun and probably something I'd consider in the future but I think I'll email them and ask if I can give them $100 a month for the Tan XCR-308  ;D

 

[DirtyDog]

I like my 5.56 XCR.  Nice solid gun, good quality.  Bit heavy and definitely pricey.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Which is the modern black gun that requires a fair bit of loctite to keep the bits on?

 

[Robert0288]

Anything from Norinco?  >

 

[JorgSlice]

Anything from Norinco?  >

Is Norinco even worth investing in? I'm always scared to purchase Norinco products because... well... The People's Republic doesn't always make quality goods.

 

[Sig_Des]

Is Norinco even worth investing in? I'm always scared to purchase Norinco products because... well... The People's Republic doesn't always make quality goods.

Depends. I'd heard really bad things about their quality control a long time ago. But I picked up the HP9-1, the 14-in barrel non-restricted 870 clone, for 300.

OEM Remington parts actually fit, and I've had 0 issues with it.

I've got a buddy who has one of their later gen Sig P226 clones, and same thing, no issues. I also know someone who had one of their 1911 clones, and said it practically fell apart on his first range outing. YMMV, I guess.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Is Norinco even worth investing in? I'm always scared to purchase Norinco products because... well... The People's Republic doesn't always make quality goods.

RecceGuy should be along shortly to set this one straight.

 

[chrisf]

Look for reviews on the individual models, and ignore people who haven't actually fired/handled it, there's a lot of folks in the firearm community who say "boo! Norinco is bad! It's made in china! It must be garbage!" who've never touched a Norinco firearm.

Over all, you don't get top of the line firearms, and they may not be exact copies of the originals, so don't expect all parts to be interchangeable, but you do get very good value for your money.

Also, you can regularly get crates of norinco ammo in the more common calibres, it's good, cheap ammo. Don't expect match grade, but do expect to do a lot of shooting.

If you're looking for something to take to the range, not expecting perfect accuracy, and aren't looking for something to stake your life on, Norinco is the way to go. Most of the guys I shoot IDPA with have at least a couple of Norinco pistols, and they haven't had any huge problems.

Oh, and if you're looking for brand name firearms, don't be afraid to buy used.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

RecceGuy should be along shortly to set this one straight.

Yup, Norinco has some lemons, no doubt. However, by and large, they have good guns for a cheap price. Unless your a full time competitor, Norincos make sense. More money for ammo.

A good example is the M-305 compared to the Springfield Armoury model. Springfield uses cast receivers from Montreal, Norinco forges theirs. Guys in the US would give their left nut for a Norinco receiver, but are banned from buying them.

There were problems with the old Polytech stuff, 20 years ago, but the new ones are fine.

The US guys like to slam Norinco, simply because they can't have one.

So, pay $400 CDN for a Norinco M-305 or over $1000 US for a Springfield Armoury model.

BTW, Springfield Armoury IS NOT US Springfield. It's a company that bought the rights to use the name.

There is nothing wrong with the vast majority of Norinco stuff. Some people just can't get past the idea of giving money to the Chinese, but won't think twice about buying their phones, TVs, computers, etc. However, Norincos are cheap, reliable and will get more people shooting than any other group of firearms.

Lots of North American arms have trouble too. Nothing like spending $2000 on a Para Ordinance and then having it sit in their warranty shop for 2 years because it's junk and never will work.

For the entry level shooter, Norinco allows you to try different guns, get comfortable and buy lots of ammo to practice with.

Most places, like Marstar, that sell them, will stand behind them and take care of issues should they arise, usually for nothing if it's the gun's fault.

I've used a M-305 in competition for years before I switched to a KelTech RFB and my go to pistol has been, and still is, a Norinco .45 Commander for the last 12 years. I wore out the barrel, that's it.

Just go buy something and get out there and shoot it.

 

[JorgSlice]

Awesome! Thanks recceguy!

 

[NavyShooter]

I have owned several Norincos over the years.

Yes, there is a history with them, and some of it is true.  Original 1980's era "PolyTech" M-14S rifles had a number of issues.  The new production M-14's or M-305 has resolved most if not all of them.  Here's my experience with Various Norcs:

M-305.  (M-14 lookalike) 1.5 MOA rifle with a bit of tuning and other work out of the box.  A new (to me) fiberglass stock, and some good quality match grade ammunition made the difference.  I suspect I would have had long terms issues with the scope mount, but that's not a Norinco issue.  I sold the rifle for what I paid for it, and I was pleased with this.  I would consider buying another M-305, however, I never used it as a competition rifle, it was not accurate enough as a "precision" rifle, and my AR-15's shoot as good or better for less cost per shot for service conditions.

NP-34.  Sig P-228 look-alike.  Accuracy?  Not so great.  Trigger?  28 pounds out of the box on DA.  Couldn't believe it....but it was 28 pounds.  2 months in the safe while I was at sea with the hammer cocked lowered the DA pull to about 19 pounds....still huge.  A bit of work tidied that up to 14 pounds, which is reasonable.  Durability?  Not so good.  Frame rail split (just like our issued P225's do now and then) after less than 2000 rounds.  GOOD NEWS, Marstar's warranty covered it, and they replaced it when the next shipment arrived.  I would not consider buying another one of these.  A cheap "starter" gun, but not conducive to long-term performance. 

M-84S.  AK-47 clone in 5.56 NATO (Semi only).  I have it....it's a safe queen, it's in great shape, but the last time I shot it was in 2004.  Alas.  No SAP's being authorized for class 12(5) prohibited firearms anymore to take them to the range.  When I did shoot it, it fired reliably, but it had a tendency to pierce primers.  Probably a firing pin protrusion issue....not worth solving at this point. 

Would I buy a Norinco again?  I'd consider an M-305 for sure.  I've been sorely tempted by the $499 1911/case of ammo deal.  Very tempted.

NS

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I have owned several Norincos over the years.

Yes, there is a history with them, and some of it is true.  Original 1980's era "PolyTech" M-14S rifles had a number of issues.  The new production M-14's or M-305 has resolved most if not all of them.  Here's my experience with Various Norcs:

M-305.  (M-14 lookalike) 1.5 MOA rifle with a bit of tuning and other work out of the box.  A new (to me) fiberglass stock, and some good quality match grade ammunition made the difference.  I suspect I would have had long terms issues with the scope mount, but that's not a Norinco issue.  I sold the rifle for what I paid for it, and I was pleased with this.  I would consider buying another M-305, however, I never used it as a competition rifle, it was not accurate enough as a "precision" rifle, and my AR-15's shoot as good or better for less cost per shot for service conditions.

NP-34.  Sig P-228 look-alike.  Accuracy?  Not so great.  Trigger?  28 pounds out of the box on DA.  Couldn't believe it....but it was 28 pounds.  2 months in the safe while I was at sea with the hammer cocked lowered the DA pull to about 19 pounds....still huge.  A bit of work tidied that up to 14 pounds, which is reasonable.  Durability?  Not so good.  Frame rail split (just like our issued P225's do now and then) after less than 2000 rounds.  GOOD NEWS, Marstar's warranty covered it, and they replaced it when the next shipment arrived.  I would not consider buying another one of these.  A cheap "starter" gun, but not conducive to long-term performance. 

M-84S.  AK-47 clone in 5.56 NATO (Semi only).  I have it....it's a safe queen, it's in great shape, but the last time I shot it was in 2004.  Alas.  No SAP's being authorized for class 12(5) prohibited firearms anymore to take them to the range.  When I did shoot it, it fired reliably, but it had a tendency to pierce primers.  Probably a firing pin protrusion issue....not worth solving at this point. 

Would I buy a Norinco again?  I'd consider an M-305 for sure.  I've been sorely tempted by the $499 1911/case of ammo deal.  Very tempted.

NS

My experience with my M305 is as follows:  Was not that accurate a rifle when I first got one but after some work and changing out some of the parts it is a very good rifle for a bargain price.  Also, ammunition makes all the difference!  If you fire cheap ammunition, expect piss poor results; however, if you use match-grade ammo this rifle is very accurate.