Sea Service Insignia (SSI) [Merged]

[Lumber]

Please. I wouldn't wear one of those if it was given to me...

Does anyone wear it? I've only encountered one person wearing it, and they weren't wearing any rank insignia, so we just kind of walked past each other making slight eye contact daring the other to salut first.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Does anyone wear it? I've only encountered one person wearing it, and they weren't wearing any rank insignia, so we just kind of walked past each other making slight eye contact daring the other to salut first.

I saw a few, here in Ottawa, last fall and this spring: I thought they looked, generally, smart and practical for the days when I, too, wear a leather windbreaker. I guess the patches and geegaws are/can be a problem ~ I actually didn't notice them on the few I saw. I don't see what's wrong with optional, personal expense, items like leather jackets, as long as we don't go overboard on the badges, flashes, patches and trinkets.

 

[Nuggs]

Even the SSI price is over the top if you ask me. The SSI by itself is somewhat of a farce anyway.  especially with the devaluation of gun metal, the sea time tracking issues, and all the bodies wearing versions thier not entitled too.

Why in the hell are we trying to dress up operational dress? I don't see the Army putting jump wings on cadpat.

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[Stoker]

Even the SSI price is over the top if you ask me. The SSI by itself is somewhat of a farce anyway.  especially with the devaluation of gun metal, the sea time tracking issues, and all the bodies wearing versions thier not entitled too.

Why in the hell are we trying to dress up operational dress? I don't see the Army putting jump wings on cadpat.

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I don't think so, apparently all this extra patches and badges and what not was from feedback from the younger guys. I see no problem with making a change now and again, the uniforms been pretty stale for a lot of years. I personally see no problem with the SSI and far as I know there is no problem with the tracking of sea time. I would suggest if you know of someone is wearing a SSI level their not entitled to tell your COC.

 

[jollyjacktar]

My SSI calculations were fucked up right from the start and have remained so.  They have me sailing when I was landed and at times landed when I was sailing.  I know many others whose dates are a mess too.

 

[Nuggs]

I don't think so, apparently all this extra patches and badges and what not was from feedback from the younger guys. I see no problem with making a change now and again, the uniforms been pretty stale for a lot of years. I personally see no problem with the SSI and far as I know there is no problem with the tracking of sea time. I would suggest if you know of someone is wearing a SSI level their not entitled to tell your COC.

In my experience those personnel are normally a part of the CoC [emoji39]

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[Stoker]

My SSI calculations were ****ed up right from the start and have remained so.  They have me sailing when I was landed and at times landed when I was sailing.  I know many others whose dates are a mess too.

So they gave some and not enough. From what I could see it was common to not have enough due to the database not being accurate enough. I would say I have several hundred sea days not accurately reflected however it doesn't matter in my case.

 

[Stoker]

In my experience those personnel are normally a part of the CoC [emoji39]

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Honestly its pretty hard to actually make up sea days to give you ones you don't deserve. You need to provide proof for the verification's. I highly doubt someone would risk a charge for doing so, I suppose its possible but I doubt its that wide spread that you contend. It seems you are sure  that people in your chain of Command are wearing SSI's that you know they don't deserve, I would like to know how exactly you know? Do you have lots of sailing experience in your 9 years in?

 

[Nuggs]

Honestly its pretty hard to actually make up sea days to give you ones you don't deserve. You need to provide proof for the verification's. I highly doubt someone would risk a charge for doing so, I suppose its possible but I doubt its that wide spread that you contend. It seems you are sure  that people in your chain of Command are wearing SSI's that you know they don't deserve, I would like to know how exactly you know? Do you have lots of sailing experience in your 9 years in?

You don't need to make up sea days, people just went down to clothing stores and picked up the SSI of their choice. Sometimes people asked for verification (print out from MM) sometimes they didn't.

No one in my current CoC is wearing an erroneous SSI, hell most of them don't even know what it is. I have however seen a fairly extensive amount of PO1-CPO2 wearing the wrong ones, along with some senior officers. I've also seen a few caught and corrected.

Most of it appears to stem from a lack of effort to get an audit done, so they wear what they believe they’re entitled to. Or more primarily the need to feel as though they, the individual, will be taken seriously. (IE that group of PO2 talking about the experience of the new PO1 posted in, I mean he’s only got 10 years in and a gun metal).

I'm not exactly sure how my years of service (which by the way is 8, not 9, but I appreciate you researching my post history) correlate with knowing members sea day counts. I'm fairly certain an OD scribe can tell what pay scale someone is on. In the same way that anyone that has read permissions in MM can see your sea day count.

However, just like the SSI, erroneously tying TI = Experience = Expertise is an issue. Yes, time spent performing any task will provide experience, but it won't necessarily make someone a SME. There’s all kinds of guys with decades at sea that are bags of hammers.

 

[Stoker]

You don't need to make up sea days, people just went down to clothing stores and picked up the SSI of their choice. Sometimes people asked for verification (print out from MM) sometimes they didn't.

No one in my current CoC is wearing an erroneous SSI, hell most of them don't even know what it is. I have however seen a fairly extensive amount of PO1-CPO2 wearing the wrong ones, along with some senior officers. I've also seen a few caught and corrected.

Most of it appears to stem from a lack of effort to get an audit done, so they wear what they believe they’re entitled to. Or more primarily the need to feel as though they, the individual, will be taken seriously. (IE that group of PO2 talking about the experience of the new PO1 posted in, I mean he’s only got 10 years in and a gun metal).

I'm not exactly sure how my years of service (which by the way is 8, not 9, but I appreciate you researching my post history) correlate with knowing members sea day counts. I'm fairly certain an OD scribe can tell what pay scale someone is on. In the same way that anyone that has read permissions in MM can see your sea day count.

However, just like the SSI, erroneously tying TI = Experience = Expertise is an issue. Yes, time spent performing any task will provide experience, but it won't necessarily make someone a SME. There’s all kinds of guys with decades at sea that are bags of hammers.

Well that too bad that you think people are walking around with SSI's that they didn't deserve, I personally don't think its as rampant as you think. Hopefully you are vigilant to bring people to task about this. Its nice to see that you are looking out for the RCN's interests in Ottawa.

 

[PuckChaser]

Even the SSI price is over the top if you ask me. The SSI by itself is somewhat of a farce anyway.  especially with the devaluation of gun metal, the sea time tracking issues, and all the bodies wearing versions thier not entitled too.

The SSI was a farce the minute it was proposed. You want a uniform device that says you go to sea? You're in the RCN, you're supposed to go to sea. That to me says there's far to many RCN pers not going to sea that you had to show there was at least some people fulfilling their primary function.

Why in the hell are we trying to dress up operational dress? I don't see the Army putting jump wings on cadpat.

Its coming. Once all our Generals and Colonels get their wings and coloured badges to show what division and Bde they belong to, the troops will get them to "improve morale". But you only get to wear 2 specialty badges, so you're not showing off.  :

 

[Monsoon]

You want a uniform device that says you go to sea? You're in the RCN, you're supposed to go to sea. That to me says there's far to many RCN pers not going to sea that you had to show there was at least some people fulfilling their primary function.

That same argument, with the substitution of "to sea" with "on deployment" and "RCN" with "army", is 100% as valid in relation to mission deployment medals.

 

[PuckChaser]

That same argument, with the substitution of "to sea" with "on deployment" and "RCN" with "army", is 100% as valid in relation to mission deployment medals.

No, an appropriate comparison is if I got a device for spending X days in the field. Operational deployments are awarded medals the same across all elements and sufficiently rare as to warrant a medal. Do you not get SSI time for heading to RIMPAC? I don't get bling for going to MAPLE RESOLVE.

 

[Monsoon]

No, an appropriate comparison is if I got a device for spending X days in the field. Operational deployments are awarded medals the same across all elements and sufficiently rare as to warrant a medal. Do you not get SSI time for heading to RIMPAC? I don't get bling for going to MAPLE RESOLVE.

It's almost as though there were very real differences in how the various components train and operate, and that passing judgement on one from a basis of experience in another might end up making the person doing the analysis look ignorant...

 

[Halifax Tar]

IMHO the SSI is a ridiculous accoutrement that should be done away with.  Its a badge for doing your/our job.  When do stewards get their good housekeeping badge ?

 

[Stoker]

I find that most who are against the SSI either has never sailed, or has done fairly limited sea time due to platform or trade. Most people with significant sea time actually wear it with pride. I personally would never begrudge someone else about something they are awarded. It may be for just doing our job but its also a visible reminder of what we do and its for actual time underway not sitting alongside posted to a ship.

This is what the RCN says about it.

"The SSI is a visible and formal recognition of the time the navy's sailors, as well as members of the army and air force who sail on HMC Ships, spend at sea, away from their homes and loved ones. It is a way of saying "thank you" to all those who have spent significant amounts of time away from their homes and families in service to the Canadian Navy"

Honestly that fine with me.

 

[Lumber]

IMHO the SSI is a ridiculous accoutrement that should be done away with.  Its a badge for doing your/our job.  When do stewards get their good housekeeping badge ?

I disagree. It's not just about doing your job, it's about all the time and sacrifice that goes with doing your job in the Navy. Being away at sea is not like being in the field. The Army goes to the field for exercises; we go to sea for trials (oh god, the trials...), work ups, support to trg courses, support to OGDs, exercises, SARs, operations, and full-blown deployments. All of these, from the minor ones to the major ones, take us away from our families and our daily routines.

If you're lucky, you get rotated around between high-tempo units, low-temp units, and shore postings; but if you're unlucky, you get posted to high-tempo ship after high-tempo ship and end up spend 200+ days each year at sea for several years on end. Does the Army do that? Does the Air Force do that?

From another perspective, we also take our time at sea much more seriously than the Army does. Let me put it this way: has anyone in the Navy ever seen members of the ship's company landed during a major training exercise so that they could practice and compete in a regional military Hockey tournament? The Army has...

 

[Halifax Tar]

I find that most who are against the SSI either has never sailed, or has done fairly limited sea time due to platform or trade. Most people with significant sea time actually wear it with pride. I personally would never begrudge someone else about something they are awarded. It may be for just doing our job but its also a visible reminder of what we do and its for actual time underway not sitting alongside posted to a ship.

This is what the RCN says about it.

"The SSI is a visible and formal recognition of the time the navy's sailors, as well as members of the army and air force who sail on HMC Ships, spend at sea, away from their homes and loved ones. It is a way of saying "thank you" to all those who have spent significant amounts of time away from their homes and families in service to the Canadian Navy"

Honestly that fine with me.

I have lots of sea time, probably in the top 3rd in my trade in Halifax.  This still doesn't sway my position.  We get sea pay for these sacrifices if the RCN wanted to give me more of a reward for doing my job then up the dollar value of sea pay.  The SSI was probably well intentioned but is really tuned into just a penis size contest for hard sea trades.

You can take pride in all you want and I am entitled to think its a self licking iced cream cone devised by the RCN.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I disagree. It's not just about doing your job, it's about all the time and sacrifice that goes with doing your job in the Navy. Being away at sea is not like being in the field. The Army goes to the field for exercises; we go to sea for trials (oh god, the trials...), work ups, support to trg courses, support to OGDs, exercises, SARs, operations, and full-blown deployments. All of these, from the minor ones to the major ones, take us away from our families and our daily routines.

If you're lucky, you get rotated around between high-tempo units, low-temp units, and shore postings; but if you're unlucky, you get posted to high-tempo ship after high-tempo ship and end up spend 200+ days each year at sea for several years on end. Does the Army do that? Does the Air Force do that?

From another perspective, we also take our time at sea much more seriously than the Army does. Let me put it this way: has anyone in the Navy ever seen members of the ship's company landed during a major training exercise so that they could practice and compete in a regional military Hockey tournament? The Army has...

Again you are remunerated for your sea time with sea pay.  I'm glad you like SSI, I think its ridiculous.

 

[Stoker]

I have lots of sea time, probably in the top 3rd in my trade in Halifax.  This still doesn't sway my position.  We get sea pay for these sacrifices if the RCN wanted to give me more of a reward for doing my job then up the dollar value of sea pay.  The SSI was probably well intentioned but is really tuned into just a penis size contest for hard sea trades.

You can take pride in all you want and I am entitled to think its a self licking iced cream cone devised by the RCN.

I respect your position but don't agree with it. I see no problem with showing how sea time you actually have, in fact it may have the effect of people wanting to sail just to get to that extra level, its an incentive.  I do agree that sea pay should be higher though.