Sea Service Insignia (SSI) [Merged]

[Stoker]

I see nothing wrong with them either. The SSI was brought out to recognize going away from home but not on deployment. The navy doesn't earn nearly as many medals as the army does and especially on the west coast where you can go sail off the coast of the Korean Peninsula (warzone technically) and not earn anything. But you can be on the east coast and do a four month booze cruise through Europe and earn a medal. So I think the navy wanted some more bling.

You can literally be gone from home for over 200+ days for years and have nothing to show for it. It's just simple recognition. People in general like to be recognized for sacrificing and doing a good job. Even if it's just a dinky shiny bauble. But it's not the piece of medal on the shirt that matters, it's the idea of sacrifice behind it that gives it meaning.

So at least if you see a guy in the navy with just a CD but a silver or gold SSI, you know that he's put his time in and been away from his family, cause we all know there is no stigma against people who have just CD's after 20 years, right! /sarcasm.

I find a lot of the people that say they don't care about the SSI at least on the west coast are the ones who haven't had enough time to earn one. Funny that.

Agree with you there, I have 22 Years in the Navy and have sea time far in excess of the time required for the Gold SSI and all I have is a CD. I'v been lots of places and went to Europe three times however nothing to merit a medal. I wear my SSI proudly like a lot of other guys.

 

[Infanteer]

I think the SSI is a good way to recognize some of the unique service demands of the RCN.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Personnaly, I say: So what.

We shouldn't earn as many medals as the Army anyway.

Going to sea in ships is what we are suposed to do. Peacetime or wartime. Period.

In the army, time spent in camp training, waiting is definetly NOT the same as any campaign - whatever little involvement you may have in it.
Its perfectly fine to recognise that.

I don't need to wear anything special on my uniform to merely depict how many days I spent at sea.

Time in service is already recognized by the CD.

I know the Americans have badges and bling for everything, including crossing the street without their Petty Officer's help. I don't care and have never felt any inferiority complex from having little to nothing on my uniform when dealing with Americans. In fact, I took great pride in the mere knowledge that even thougfh they wore dozens of badges, ribbons and medals, I still knew my job better than they did.

If we need to recognize time in for seaman, I would have prefered to bring back the old stripes - regardless of confusion it caused with the Army and Airforces.

 

[misratah500]

What are these stripes you speak of?

 

[Edward Campbell]

What are these stripes you speak of?

Many years ago the Navy wore chevrons, on one arm, below the rank badges (anchors in various formats), to indicate years of service. So did the army - upside down chevrons (a la a drum major) on one sleeve, just below our marksmanship badges, to indicate years of service before a CD was awarded.

RN (WRNS) PO1 (WO) with 13+ years of service


I found a picture of Canadian Army battle dress - it is an Army Cadet, but his service stripes are in the same place that they would be worn by a real soldier, SSgt or below ~ below the marksmanship badge. WOs (WO1 and WO2) did not wear service stripes (or marksmanship badges) because then, as now, their lower sleeves were taken up with rank badges. Then as now, marksmanship badges were worn on the left sleeve and trade badges on the right.

Edit: to add army photo

 

[PuckChaser]

We'll get to work on a Land Service Insignia, for the troops that spend 200-250 days a year in the field, or Air Service Insignia for the aircrews working around the clock to support operations 365 days a year. You joined the Navy, you shouldn't expect a damn medal or shiny piece of fabric for doing your job. A waste of money you could have put towards some new ships.  :2c:

 

[winnipegoo7]

A lot of sailors don't go to sea as often as they should. Ie they are 'sick', have a bad case of 'NATO knee' or some other lame excuse. So I think the sea service insignia is a good way to find out who hasn't been do there fair share of sailing. I know some sailors in a hard sea trade that only have 50 or 60 sea days in 3 years, while other's posted to the same unit with the same time in have 1 year + of sea time.

 

[TwoTonShackle]

I don't think the intent of the SSI was to give other CF member's another way to measure the value or use of a sailor.  It is a simple gesture in order to recognize and promote the achievement of some.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I just hope the ones with negative outlooks are not fostering that same outlook in their peers and subordinates.

 

[fraserdw]

A lot of sailors don't go to sea as often as they should. Ie they are 'sick', have a bad case of 'NATO knee' or some other lame excuse. So I think the sea service insignia is a good way to find out who hasn't been do there fair share of sailing. I know some sailors in a hard sea trade that only have 50 or 60 sea days in 3 years, while other's posted to the same unit with the same time in have 1 year + of sea time.

An issue in the Army too.  I know Gunners, troopers, Royals and Patricia's who have 25 years of service and only a CD1, how they did it I do not know.  This is an interesting discussion, I can recall sitting around common room cleaning C1s for the umpteen time and discussing why it was so hard to get a medal in the army unless you were a General or an RSM.  Once so promoted, you got what we called the "fruit salad" package to attach to your CD to bring you up to 1 whole row of medals.  You still looked lame compared to the US military but you looked like a bloody hero when you paraded with a Canadian battalion.

Now the conversation is full circle.  Interestingly, we (the Army) were never one for giving out medals because of all the trade and years of service badges we wore on the battledress.  Once we went to the Trudeau suits and Hellyer battledress (workdress) we lost those badges.  The CD is a great thing but we used to have the ED on our service dress and the years of service stripes on our battledress.  Perhaps we need a 3 year stripe for each 3 years of good service until the CD is awarded then the stripes are removed.  I see nothing wrong with recognizing soldiers who re-sign for another engagement. 

While not a sailor, myself, I got 9 cousins serving in the RCN and they have often said the same thing.  An SSI would improve the availability of sailors for service as it would be hard to be in a hard RCN trade with a poor showing on your SSI.  Regardless of how you view the intent, it may help share the burden of sea service.  :2c: plus  :2c:

 

[winnipegoo7]

...9 cousins serving in the RCN ...

That's certainly notable!

I just want to add that many of these sailors who don't sail still receive sea pay, as they are posted to sea going units even though they are unfit sea. 

 

[Stoker]

That's certainly notable!

I just want to add that many of these sailors who don't sail still receive sea pay, as they are posted to sea going units even though they are unfit sea.

Up to a certain point, if they're on T6 sea pay stops. If someone has a legit short term injury, I don't begrudge them their sea pay.

 

[fraserdw]

That's certainly notable!

I just want to add that many of these sailors who don't sail still receive sea pay, as they are posted to sea going units even though they are unfit sea.

Not to get off topic but 4 of them are from one family and their father was a navy for 30 years!  Back to topic.

 

[McG]

I guess the Navy just wants to leverage some good ol' peer pressure to get people on ship for longer/ more often.

If the CF really wanted to leverage something to get sailors to sea (or soldiers in the field) then it would stop with allowances based on posting messages and award allowances based on specific experienced hardships.

Right now there are guys collecting hundreds of additional dollars per paycheck for the glory of having their name put against a particular establishment position but not actually doing anything more than another guy doing the exact same in another position.  Some of these financially rewarded individuals are not even asked in the course of their duties to endure the hardship for which they are rewarded (Adjts & CCs come to mind in particular).  Others manage to always get a 14 day injury or illness just at the right time to never actually endure the conditions for which they are rewarded … and who could expect any different when we have an incentive system that gives the milk away for free.

I am not objecting to the SSI; I really don't care, but let's not pretend it is proof the CF is attempting to influence a particular behavior.  If we were interested in that then our financial compensation and rewards would reflect this; if we cared there would not be the existing sea pay & LDA.  There would be super FOA and enhanced casual sea pay where those exposed to the hardship would make as-much or more while free-rides would end.

 

[The_Falcon]

There would be super FOA and enhanced casual sea pay where those exposed to the hardship would make as-much or more while free-rides would end.

HEY HEY HEY enough of that common sense using your head stuff. 

 

[Tank Troll]

If the CF really wanted to leverage something to get sailors to sea (or soldiers in the field) then it would stop with allowances based on posting messages and award allowances based on specific experienced hardships.
If we cared there would not be the existing sea pay & LDA.  There would be super FOA and enhanced casual sea pay where those exposed to the hardship would make as-much or more while free-rides would end.

I heard that actual thought some where at some brief this summer (can't remember where) but they were also talking about Air Crew pay also and actually having to log the time instead of just being posted to the postion.

 

[daftandbarmy]

If the CF really wanted to leverage something to get sailors to sea (or soldiers in the field) then it would stop with allowances based on posting messages and award allowances based on specific experienced hardships.

Right now there are guys collecting hundreds of additional dollars per paycheck for the glory of having their name put against a particular establishment position but not actually doing anything more than another guy doing the exact same in another position.  Some of these financially rewarded individuals are not even asked in the course of their duties to endure the hardship for which they are rewarded (Adjts & CCs come to mind in particular).  Others manage to always get a 14 day injury or illness just at the right time to never actually endure the conditions for which they are rewarded … and who could expect any different when we have an incentive system that gives the milk away for free.

I am not objecting to the SSI; I really don't care, but let's not pretend it is proof the CF is attempting to influence a particular behavior.  If we were interested in that then our financial compensation and rewards would reflect this; if we cared there would not be the existing sea pay & LDA.  There would be super FOA and enhanced casual sea pay where those exposed to the hardship would make as-much or more while free-rides would end.

Understood. But badges are cheaper and more effective  ;D

 

[jollyjacktar]

A lot of sailors don't go to sea as often as they should. Ie they are 'sick', have a bad case of 'NATO knee' or some other lame excuse. So I think the sea service insignia is a good way to find out who hasn't been do there fair share of sailing. I know some sailors in a hard sea trade that only have 50 or 60 sea days in 3 years, while other's posted to the same unit with the same time in have 1 year + of sea time.

And some don't necessarily get a huge amount of "qualifying" sea days due to the nature of the sail.  Such as the Great Lakes trip the VDQ just completed to show the flag.  They were away from home for an extended period of time, however, their transits were of a short duration which didn't qualify.  And your time on a particular platform might be during a low readiness period, FELEX cycle or whatever.  It doesn't necessarily mean that the member was skiving or had a bad case of NATO knee.

And so you're away from home.  That goes for many members of the Air Force or Army Field units.  When I was in 1 CMBG in my old trade we were away somewhere practically every month, maybe for the day or two or maybe for the whole month.  Goes with the job.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Why not link the requirements for the SSI directly and sea duty allowance scales together.  One earns the other.

Meaning, if your a gun metal level SSI (like me) then your sea duty allowance is the bottom rung.

This way you cant get the badge or the pay without actually spending days underway.

Seems like a good comprise to me...

 

[Danjanou]

Just wait until you retire. You'll get all the pins and badges you want on your "uniform."

 

[Halifax Tar]

Just wait until you retire. You'll get all the pins and badges you want on your "uniform."

I think we should all look like your first picture!  Gather as much "bling" as you can.  Our dress uniform standards should defiantly run off the wallmart door greeter dress standards!