Service Dress - Right On!

[marshall sl]

We could attache them with velcro.

 

[TCBF]

- Having worn Battledress and CF Tunic styles, I prefer the CF Tunic style, thanks.

- I don't want to return to an army which is rich in office uniforms but field poor.  I now think that if any new uniform is in addition to the 'Rifle Green' DEU, rather than replacing it, then nix it.
- Nix the work dress, as well.

- I recall that a lot of the drive towards an 'independent' colour was political: Gamel Abdel Nasser saw Canadians rolling off the carrier looking just like Brits - kilts and all.  Endex.  Also, the CF Greens were bought at the tail end of a lot of WW2 careers, and those guys knew every time a picture of Canadians fighting was shown to Americans, they called us 'British'.  Hence: our own look.

 

[Old Sweat]

The first green uniform was trotted circa 1966-1967. It was designed to replace the three single service uniforms and army lore has it that rifle green was selected because (a) it was not used by any of the three services and (b) the officer running the uniform section in D Ceremonial was a member of the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada. Certainly the first picture of the new uniform I saw was of an officer in that regiment.

The original concept was a single uniform with a single cap badge and no distinctive identifying badges. The choice between a single and branch/regimental badges was still being debated in 1972. Dextraze finally quashed the single badge plan when he was CDS.

 

[ModlrMike]

Dextraze finally quashed the single badge plan when he was CDS.

I'm glad we never followed through with that misbegotten idea.

 

[TCBF]

I'm glad we never followed through with that misbegotten idea.

- Everyone just loved the 'Cornflake".

 

[Matt_Fisher]

- Having worn Battledress and CF Tunic styles, I prefer the CF Tunic style, thanks.

- I don't want to return to an army which is rich in office uniforms but field poor.  I now think that if any new uniform is in addition to the 'Rifle Green' DEU, rather than replacing it, then nix it.

I think that the consensus is going towards dropping the current winterweight CF/Rifle Green DEU in favour of a more historically oriented khaki one, with the same style jacket for both officers and NCMs.  Given that eventually, DSSPM is going to fund and field a midweight replacement to the current heavyweight/winter DEU, why not go with khaki?

- Nix the work dress, as well.

There will still be occasions that combats are too casual and full DEU with tunic may be impractical, i.e. NDHQ, recruiting centers, hq, etc.  Something that is a wash & wear version of the DEU trousers with either a sweater, or battledress inspired jacket may be a better alternative.  Also, with the likelihood that eventually combats will be replaced by the 'Future Combat Uniform' program, which will most likely be for operational use only, due to the high cost of materials used (performance fire retardant fabrics, etc.) a 'garrison' type uniform which provides more durability and a better appearance than the current combats may be something to consider.

- I recall that a lot of the drive towards an 'independent' colour was political: Gamel Abdel Nasser saw Canadians rolling off the carrier looking just like Brits - kilts and all.  Endex.  Also, the CF Greens were bought at the tail end of a lot of WW2 careers, and those guys knew every time a picture of Canadians fighting was shown to Americans, they called us 'British'.  Hence: our own look.

I can see the point there, when we used battledress as both service and field uniform, but with the adoption of OD and then CADPAT combat uniforms, with national flag patches, I think that the argument that we may be mistaken in the field for other armies is somewhat moot when it comes to national identification. 

 

[geo]

WRT a work dress.... something like the old Bush uniform might be an alternative.
Possibly use a fabric like the old work dress trousers for the wear & tear aspect & a windbreaker kind of jacket... but I'd stick with the berret...

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

I think that the consensus is going towards dropping the current winterweight CF/Rifle Green DEU in favour of a more historically oriented khaki one, with the same style jacket for both officers and NCMs.  Given that eventually, DSSPM is going to fund and field a midweight replacement to the current heavyweight/winter DEU, why not go with khaki?

There will still be occasions that combats are too casual and full DEU with tunic may be impractical, i.e. NDHQ, recruiting centers, hq, etc.  Something that is a wash & wear version of the DEU trousers with either a sweater, or battledress inspired jacket may be a better alternative.  Also, with the likelihood that eventually combats will be replaced by the 'Future Combat Uniform' program, which will most likely be for operational use only, due to the high cost of materials used (performance fire retardant fabrics, etc.) a 'garrison' type uniform which provides more durability and a better appearance than the current combats may be something to consider.

I can see the point there, when we used battledress as both service and field uniform, but with the adoption of OD and then CADPAT combat uniforms, with national flag patches, I think that the argument that we may be mistaken in the field for other armies is somewhat moot when it comes to national identification. 

+1  We don't want to over complicate this.  The idea is to replace rifle green with khaki, with some small modifications to fabric and "matching" rank identifiers, not revise the entire dress system.  Shoes, hats and the like would remain the same. Infanteer has posted the way ahead I was thinking of.  There should be no need for a separate intermediate uniform when some extra items for DEU would suffice.  Indeed work/garrison dress was eliminated because of complaints from soldiers, as were tans (see, they do listen).  We need a DEU that is flexible enough to function in a fairly wide variety of work environments.  Combats should suffice for field/gettin' dirty work.  I also suspect that there would be little appetite for public purchase of ceremonials en masse; they are hugely expensive and of limited utility day to day, as much as I love scarlet.

I also think that we should get past the idea of an "independent" colour.  As proposed, a khaki DEU would be immediately identifiable as Canadian, even at a distance. 

My 2 cents.

 

[Dirty Patricia]

Teddy, good ideas and definitely not too drastic to get immediately shot down.  As said before that will be the key.  If the idea can be tied in with the need for an intermediate weight uniform as opposed to the current winter weight, it might get rolling.

 

[IntlBr]

So who here wants to staff this up, and who can accidentally "drop" this on the CDS' desk?  ;D

 

[Nordman]

I think a khaki uniform sounds interesting as long as its not the really light tan....... i do think the the army's DEU is the lesser of all three services right now......

if anyone is interesting they might want to check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._A...oesnt quite warrant full ceremonial uniforms

 

[Infanteer]

+1  We don't want to over complicate this.  The idea is to replace rifle green with khaki, with some small modifications to fabric and "matching" rank identifiers, not revise the entire dress system.  Shoes, hats and the like would remain the same. Infanteer has posted the way ahead I was thinking of.  There should be no need for a separate intermediate uniform when some extra items for DEU would suffice.  Indeed work/garrison dress was eliminated because of complaints from soldiers, as were tans (see, they do listen).  We need a DEU that is flexible enough to function in a fairly wide variety of work environments.  Combats should suffice for field/gettin' dirty work.  I also suspect that there would be little appetite for public purchase of ceremonials en masse; they are hugely expensive and of limited utility day to day, as much as I love scarlet.

I also think that we should get past the idea of an "independent" colour.  As proposed, a khaki DEU would be immediately identifiable as Canadian, even at a distance. 

My 2 cents.

Teddy, good ideas and definitely not too drastic to get immediately shot down.  As said before that will be the key.  If the idea can be tied in with the need for an intermediate weight uniform as opposed to the current winter weight, it might get rolling.

Geez!  I think this may be an Army.ca first - we nail something down in 7 pages!  I'm going to get my crayons and start drawing out a new design to post on the DIN.

All kidding aside, I think everything presented sounds pretty logical and could be pushed as an "Army Transformation" initiative.  New Army, New Look (well, back to an Older Look in reality)....

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Nice thing about changes to Marine Corps uniforms in the past few years was that MarCorSysCom/Marine Corps Uniform Board would post an online survey soliciting feedback from Marines about proposed changes.  DSSPM should do something similar for the DEU, asking what members think.  Perhaps we're way off base here thinking that khaki is the way to go?  Only way to find out is to do a survey open to all members of the Land Force Command.

 

[RangerRay]

So who here wants to staff this up, and who can accidentally "drop" this on the CDS' desk?  ;D

I volunteer!

Would General Rick listen to the opinion of a former reservist corporal who hasn't drilled in over 10 years?  ;D

 

[Dirty Patricia]

The next time I see the General, I'm definitely going to bring it up.  He's good that way.

 

[benny88]

Hell, let's just kick it right up top to HRH.

 

[davidk]

HRH who? If you're referring to the Queen, she's HM...

 

[benny88]

After some Royal Research....you're right. Due to your knowledge, it looks like you've volunteered krystal! ;D Good luck

 

[davidk]

Just because I talk the talk doesn't mean I walk the walk...

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

The next time I see the General, I'm definitely going to bring it up.  He's good that way.

I think that's definitely the way ahead.  He listens to BTDT guys and this almost has to be put forward as an idea that has the support of a pretty wide constituency, not just a bunch of harumphing staff officers (of which I am one now).