Should the Canadian Coast Guard be armed?

[mcnutt_p]

The problem with letting them do maritime safety and SAR work only is sometimes they are the only platform in the area and it may take some time for armed assets to get there.

Good point. If you have to what for armed assest to get there you don't know what will happen. For example you could pull along side a fishing trawler and some fisherman decides he does not like you looking at him and uncovers a surplus .50 sitting on the bow.

They don't need to be militarized though, we have the Navy in the event the CCG needs support for something beyond their abilities, just as the Army has been called in to support Law Enforcement on land.

Even if they would not become part of DND as the original question asked, they should still be militarized. People tend to think differently when they have a gun pointed at them.

My thoughts

McNutt

 

[x-grunt]

Good point. If you have to what for armed assest to get there you don't know what will happen. For example you could pull along side a fishing trawler and some fisherman decides he does not like you looking at him and uncovers a surplus .50 sitting on the bow.

And how often does this happen in real life? The Native fisheries get a bit riled up, I know, but then the RCMP has jurisdiction there and gets involved with that situation.

Even if they would not become part of DND as the original question asked, they should still be militarized. People tend to think differently when they have a gun pointed at them.

Militarizing is a major undertaking. Essentially you are starting a new service, on existing ships. New policies, training, staffing of a recruit center, recruiting itself, plus the legal hassles involved in negotiating with existing personnel and their unions who need to be retrained if they stay. The current CCG has NO military or paramilitary function. We have enough problems recruiting for the CF. Even the existing CCG has manpower issues, if I understand correctly. Transfer or acquire appropriate vessels for the RCMP or beef up the Navy and let them loose on this. Or, if the CCG must be used, keep them as is with the addition of a gun or two and a training course for selected members. Maybe have some CCG officers and selected crew take the NBP course. Or send along a non-CCG sub-unit to fill this role. Again, maybe a role for the RCMP or NavRes.

The problem with letting them do maritime safety and SAR work only is sometimes they are the only platform in the area and it may take some time for armed assets to get there.

I agree with you  Ex-Dragoon. So what are we expecting here that a CCG vessel will have to address? There in lies the important question that needs answering before the rest of the original question can be properly addressed. What is the mission an armed CCG is expected to perform, is it already being done by someone, and if not why are they the ones to do it?

 

[Bug Guy]

Unionized, that is the problem.  

Also creating a Department of Homeland Security, would probably create lots of problems. Yes it would consolidateings such as the CCG, RCMP, CSIS, and Customs all under on command, but

Do you think this is a top to bottom issue?  Perhaps an interim measure such as increased inter agency co-op would be wise to ensure we have the proper capabilities first.  Concentrate in developing operators and co-operation first, and the command aspect second.  Resturcture of inadequate assets will only create further delay and unnecessary friction.

:skull:

 

[mcnutt_p]

Perhaps an interim measure such as increased inter agency co-op would be wise to ensure we have the proper capabilities first.   Concentrate in developing operators and co-operation first, and the command aspect second.   Resturcture of inadequate assets will only create further delay and unnecessary friction.

If you set up a command structure even if it is interm would allow the development of operaters through the use of the others agencies resources. For example the RCMP and CCG could train togther, for response teams, this could be reinforced by training staff from a NBP.

McNutt

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

If you set up a command structure even if it is interm would allow the development of operaters through the use of the others agencies resources. For example the RCMP and CCG could train togther, for response teams, this could be reinforced by training staff from a NBP

The RCMP already have some personnel trained in boarding ops as does some from the old DFO.

 

[Slim]

The problem with letting them do maritime safety and SAR work only is sometimes they are the only platform in the area and it may take some time for armed assets to get there.

I have been a member of the CCG auxiliary for going on five years now.

You wouldn't believe the stuff that my crew has come across in Lake Ontario just doing rescues. I don't know if arming either the reg CCG or us is the answer but there definitely needs to be some sort of increased law enforcement on the water...It would blow your mind what goes on out there, just in the great lakes.

Cheers

Slim

 

[RecDiver]

Hi Slim: What unit are you in? TOWARF/ GAMRU?

I have been in CCGA for almost 10 years now and knowing our membership, I would not give any guns to anyone of us! CCGA is strictly a volunteer marine search and rescue organization made of either privately owned pleasurecraft or community unit with vessels donated by municapalities. An exception might be District 9 (real up north) where RCMP RIBs etc are registered and taking part in CCGA. Not sure who would want to install a machine gun onto their slick tupperware (i.e. new fiberglass yacht!).

All community based CCGA units maintain a good working relationship with local Police Units and  on occasion, Police officers or Customs officers join their patrol crews.

I understand with additional funding, RCMP officers will now be on board the CCG cutters serving the Great Lakes Area. And thats a good start for a joint relationship.

Cheers,

Nick

 

[Slim]

Hi Slim: What unit are you in? TOWARF/ GAMRU?

Crew 5 PARU.

You're right inthat there would have to be some big changes before they start handing out guns to the various crews I've seen.

IUt would have to be an organization-wide change...Maybe something along the lines of the Auxilliary police (of which I am a part of in Durham Region) who aren't too bad at all.

I dunno...The whole thing is way above my pay-grade!

BTW PARU is owned and operated by the Durham Regional Police now.

Cheers

 

[RecDiver]

PARU is THE most respected unit in CCGA. Unit 001, right? And probably the only unit with bravery medals due to last year's daring rescue.

I had started in PARU as well (served few years) and was at Tony's funeral few weeks ago.

You guys had the DRP Credit Card for awhile, I guess now the MOU with them is signed as well. Congrats and I hope it works out well.

Wish you a safe SAR season.

 

[Slim]

RecDiver

PM inbound

Slim

 

[mcnutt_p]

The RCMP already have some personnel trained in boarding ops as does some from the old DFO.

Thanks should of checked first.

Does the CCG perform boardings with its members, on the same scale as an NBP? If so are the assisted by members of the RCMP?

McNutt

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Thanks should of checked first.

Does the CCG perform boardings with its members, on the same scale as an NBP? If so are the assisted by members of the RCMP?

McNutt

See above....

 

[Spr.Earl]

One interesting bit of trivia is way back when I was coming from over town in Combats (no money) bugger QR&O's ,I stuck out the old thumb and got a lift from a Fisheries Officer and load and behold he had a holster on his hip so I asked what are you carrying?It blew me away a .350 Magnum short barrel.
We got into why? it turns out they get shot at quite a bit and I'm going back at least 15yrs.

But our Coast Guard also must be given the power to arrest,detain and give on the spot fines also,as of now they have non of these powers.

 

[Slim]

But our Coast Guard also must be given the power to arrest,detain and give on the spot fines also,as of now they have non of these powers.

Nope...Now they go out and save drunk and stupid boaters from themselves...At least on Lake Ontario anyway.

Slim

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

I do think they  need some form of protection, powers to detain and arrest are needed.
Does the whole force need to be packing, no, the staff wieners at land units no, the guyson patrol in boats on the coasts yes, great lakes, yes, enough smuggling there goes on to pay  for the entire fleet in a year.
People who protect our borders and coasts are out gunned before they  have their first cup of coffee in the morning before work.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

People who protect our borders and coasts are out gunned before they  have their first cup of coffee in the morning before work.

hmmm I don't know....very few drug smugglers carry a 76mm Oto Melara, 29 SM2 Standards. torpedoes, CIWS and 50 cals where I am from

 

[DogOfWar]

hmmm I don't know....very few drug smugglers carry a 76mm Oto Melara, 29 SM2 Standards. torpedoes, CIWS and 50 cals where I am from

not to mention the 40mm, and the small arms. The Canadian Coast Guard isnt set up to enforce anything... should they be? Sure....but then again has anyone run any of this by the guys in the coast guard? They may not be interested in taking on increased taskings. They would certainy require a ridiculous amount of money. Thats got to come from somewhere- Id imagine right out of the pockets of the RCMP and the Navy. Im NOT in favor of that.

 

[koss78a]

yes they should be armed,

 

[Infanteer]

Whoh boy, you brought this thread to the top to say that?

 

[paracowboy]

personally, I think our postal workers, street cleaners, and school teachers should also be armed. Along with anyone who works in the fast-food industry, sales, basically any white or blue-collar occupation.

"Got a job? Get a gun!"

and I ain't just talkin' li'l hide-aways tucked out of sight. I mean big honkin' Colt Single-Action Armies worn tied down on the hip! But, that's just me. My spurs, they jingle jangle jingle....