Should the Canadian Coast Guard be armed?

[Fishbone Jones]

Quick scenario.

Canadian Coast Guard spots a boat, that has left the US and is attempting to land in Canada. Common occurrence BTW, at the Windsor/ Detroit corridor. "Stop!!! Canadian Coast Guard!! Stop your motor, and prepare for us to come along side!!.............Fuck you!!!!(pops a couple of caps in the general direction of the CCG). "OK boys, their jumping into a van on shore "(too dark to read the plate), I think this may be the OPP's jurisdiction now, give them a call and let them know.

                                                  -or-

"Stop!!! Canadian Coast Guard!! Stop your motor, and prepare for us to come along side!!.............Fuck you!!!!(pops a couple of caps in the general direction of the CCG).

Coast Guard pops a couple of flares, night turns to day. Five rounds of fifty AA (one ball one trace) flash over the twenty foot tri-ihull with thirty illegals on it. Pull up, take all into custody, seize all property and arrest bad guys. Get invited to the annual CG dinner in Detroit and tell the USGC that the Canadian gov't let's you play with flares and guns too.

 

[TCBF]

Hell, even Barbie's got a maw Deuce:

http://www.thegunzone.com/gagpix/mg-barbie.html

Tom

 

[Neill McKay]

Quick scenario.

Canadian Coast Guard spots a boat, that has left the US and is attempting to land in Canada. Common occurrence BTW, at the Windsor/ Detroit corridor. "Stop!!! Canadian Coast Guard!! Stop your motor, and prepare for us to come along side!!.............**** you!!!!(pops a couple of caps in the general direction of the CCG). "OK boys, their jumping into a van on shore "(too dark to read the plate), I think this may be the OPP's jurisdiction now, give them a call and let them know.

                                                   -or-

"Stop!!! Canadian Coast Guard!! Stop your motor, and prepare for us to come along side!!.............**** you!!!!(pops a couple of caps in the general direction of the CCG).

Coast Guard pops a couple of flares, night turns to day. Five rounds of fifty AA (one ball one trace) flash over the twenty foot tri-ihull with thirty illegals on it. Pull up, take all into custody, seize all property and arrest bad guys. Get invited to the annual CG dinner in Detroit and tell the USGC that the Canadian gov't let's you play with flares and guns too.

Given the current taskings, training, and equipment of the Coast Guard, a more likely scenario is somewhere in the middle: mounties embarked on a CG vessel to look after the police work.  (There's at least one vessel in the CG fleet now that does this.  Odd-looking thing too: the hull is painted in the usual CG colours, but the superstructure has RCMP striping and other markings.)

 

[Old Ranger]

personally, I think our postal workers, street cleaners, and school teachers should also be armed. Along with anyone who works in the fast-food industry, sales, basically any white or blue-collar occupation.

"Got a job? Get a gun!"

and I ain't just talkin' li'l hide-aways tucked out of sight. I mean big honkin' Colt Single-Action Armies worn tied down on the hip! But, that's just me. My spurs, they jingle jangle jingle....

Paracowboy for el Presidenty!!!

 

[Old Ranger]

Quick scenario.
"Stop!!! Canadian Coast Guard!! Stop your motor, and prepare for us to come along side!!.............**** you!!!!(pops a couple of caps in the general direction of the CCG).

Coast Guard pops a couple of flares, night turns to day. Five rounds of fifty AA (one ball one trace) flash over the twenty foot tri-ihull with thirty illegals on it. Pull up, take all into custody, seize all property and arrest bad guys. Get invited to the annual CG dinner in Detroit and tell the USGC that the Canadian gov't let's you play with flares and guns too.

Option 2 is the No Brainer, and the profit from the seized items would be great rolled back into the CCG.

 

[Old Ranger]

With the exceptions above, nations I've looked at with a CG use it primarily for SAR and to maintain safe waterways. Catching bad guys is not a primary role.

So, what's wrong with a secondary role?

As long as the training and disipline is in place, gear up! :fifty:

The more support the good guy's have the better!

 

[paracowboy]

even if it not a primary role, it is still something they are called upon to perform. Doesn't it make sense for them to have the means to return fire? I am extremely uncomfortable with sending good people to face a threat and not providing them with the means to at least defend themselves, if not enforce their will on recalcitrant ne'er-do-wells. Give 'em guns, training, the best boats available, air over-watch (with armed support rotary-wing aircraft), the works! Let's protect the men and women who are doing their best to protect us.

 

[Neill McKay]

The Canadian Coast Guard's jobs are search and rescue, icebreaking, maintaining the aids to navigation system, running the marine communications system (radio stations), and fisheries-related work.  It's a very different mandate from the US Coast Guard, which often seems to be the yardstick against which the CCG is compared.  Coast Guard members are a lot closer to merchant mariners than to naval or police personnel.  Arming their ships and giving them a law-enforcement role would be a very large undertaking, and would almost certainly have serious financial and cultural implications for the members.  Imagine the contract you'd have to write (and they are unionized) to include compensation for the dangers of getting into armed confrontations with criminals.

 

[Old Ranger]

Imagine the contract you'd have to write (and they are unionized) to include compensation for the dangers of getting into armed confrontations with criminals.

Is there not already wording for compensation for the Hazards they already face?

Slim, can you shed any light?

 

[Neill McKay]

Is there not already wording for compensation for the Hazards they already face?

I'm only speculating on how a union would react to having its members jobs change radically from current CG activities to something with the real possibility of armed conflict.   I don't think anybody joins the Coast Guard expecting to be asked to fight a surface action, even if it is only with small arms.  It's a big jump to go from the Dangers of the Sea to also having to face the Violence of the Enemy.

 

[Slim]

Is there not already wording for compensation for the Hazards they already face?

Slim, can you shed any light?

Unfortunately I cannot. I'm a member of the auxiliary CG...A whole different beastie.

I can tell you a few things though. About 75% of our coasts are protected by auxiliary boats during the spring/summer/fall time of year. They do far more of the rescues than the reg CG do. Usually the rescues performed by the CCGA are more the "my engine broke, please tow me!" type. However we do get some good ones. Another crew on my boat was decorated for bravery for taking our boat (35 foot rescue cutter) UP ON A SEA WALL to rescue a group of vietnamese fisherman who had gone out in a Zodiac inflateable boat in near hurricane conditions.

That being said the CCG and the CCGA are so underfunded that most reg units hire summer students for crew on the reg boats during the summer now and the CCGA have to scrimp and save what they can just to continue to operate.

A sad state of affairs to be sure.

Slim

 

[Old Ranger]

It's a big jump to go from the Dangers of the Sea to also having to face the Violence of the Enemy.

True, but the Storm still rages on if you pop some caps into the Sea.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

From the law enforcement end:
Drugs are now smuggled mostly in ships coming up from Columbia and over from the Golden Triangle into Canada, specifically BC.  They have an almost completely autonomous run up, and can off load with no problems.  They don't even try to get into the States because of the previously mentioned enforcement actions of the USCG and the tightened up ports in the US.  There are thousands of pounds of contraband moving across Canada in trucks every day and flowing into the States.  WE export most of the drugs to the US, except what comes from Mexico. 
If we can get a few more sets of eyes that are properly trained and armed on the water, that can only help everyone.  A huge undertaking to be sure, but why not? 
And the Canadian Homeland Security idea is overdue.

 

[STONEY]

No way !  no one who knows the slighest bit about the Coast Guard  would ever suggest such an insane idea. Now if you were going to completely shut down the whole organization and fire everyone and start over again from scratch recruiting and training new people and had lots of funding then it would be possible provided the law was changed .  When a CG vessel is on fisheries patrol it carries armed fisheries officers to do all enforcement operations the CG merely provides the platform also when involved in anti-drug ops or other similar ops they carry RCMP officers and it is up to them and them alone to do the actual boarding and arresting and once again the CG merely provides transportation. If at any time the Captain of the CG vessel feels his vessel or crew are in any danger whatsoever its is his duty to refuse to take his ship into harms way and they have done so on many occasions.
    When police are going on a drug raid they don't stop any car goinng down the street and tell the man or woman driving to take them on the raid, on the contrary they make sure all civilians are well clear of the area. Canadian Coast Guard vessels are manned by civilian merchant seaman and many of the crew are not even permanent employees but casual seaman on short term contracts.  I know its hard to understand just how the CG works but imagine this:  You are a infantry private in the 1PPCLI and you hear that 2PPCLI is short a Major so you apply for the job and you get it ,because there is a shortage of Major's at present.  After a year in the job, suddenly a major comes to replace you so you are sent back to 1PPCLI and since they have enough infantry privates but there is a vacancy for a sargent cook so they put you there . Bizarre you say , well not in the Coast Guard , anybody can apply for any vacant position & there is no such thing as a rank progression as understood by military personnel.

Please excuse my terrible spelling.
Cheers.

 

[Blackhorse7]

Absolutely arm them, and make whatever changes it takes to do so.  We are living in a new age that the nicey, nicey, 1970's version of Canadian Ideals does not fit into.  I would like to see the Canadian Coast Guard become an integral and essential part of border integrity and security.  To do that, they must be armed. 

Yes it would be a huge cost in training, equipment, and the list goes on.  But think of the price to be paid.  Illegal drugs coming into this country are rampant.  Guns, contraband, etc are so easy to smuggle into Canada that it is a joke.  For God's sake, I was on a trip out to Prince Rupert awhile ago.  No kidding, the ONLY border enforcement that was there was a sign on the dock that said "If entering Canada from a foreign point, please report to Canada Customs Office.", or word to that effect. 

Like it or not, the US is our next door neighbor, and we have a duty to assist in their safety, to say nothing of our own.  With such a huge waterfront to patrol/enforce, I can't even fathom why there is a question as to arming the Canadian Coast Guard or not.

 

[enfield]

Give them armed boarding parties, deck guns, high-performance Navy-type ships, give them armed ice breakers, and helicopters with door guns. Give them the civilian Search and Rescue role as well, and possibly surveillance aircraft. Integrate them directly with Border Services and the RCMP.

We have the longest coastline in the world - anything less than an armed Coast Guard, mandated for a range of aggressive actions and law enforcement, is irresponsible.

Of course, the difficulty lies in how to accomplish - the current CG is far removed from a para-military organization like the USCG.

 

[Neill McKay]

The real question seems to be "should the mandate of the Coast Guard be changed to include police and border security work?", for which they would have to be armed.  Given the CG's current mandate there's no earthly reason to arm them.

 

[Old Ranger]

The real question seems to be "should the mandate of the Coast Guard be changed to include police and border security work?", for which they would have to be armed.  Given the CG's current mandate there's no earthly reason to arm them.

Yes, change the Mandate!

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Better yet expand the Navy both regular and Reserve and let us assume the roles.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

It appears that Stoney has been there and may have the pulse of the CCG.  So if they want their only role in enforcement to be simply be a skittish taxi service to the other agencies, who are we to force them into a more dynamic role?
If the union thing was an issue, maybe something like the Dutch have for their military?  When they are in non-op/training mode, the union is right in there.  If they deploy in a real theatre, the union stuff gets suspended until they are back.  Same deal on the water.  Union applies in harbour, on the water, all military.
If the CCG doesn't want it, give it to the Navy.  They have the combat training, have military discipline and already do boardings.  I'm betting the bad guys know the difference between a dayglow orange tug boat, and a shark grey patrol boat.