Speed, RCMP and 404s

[Timmy!]

Did you try to look at the TD's in the back of the book. That is (I believe) the "updated" part of the 158-5. I don't have the book in front to look it up.

Regards,
Mr Plow

 

[George Wallace]

Did you try to look at the TD's in the back of the book. That is (I believe) the "updated" part of the 158-5. I don't have the book in front to look it up.

Regards,
Mr Plow

Here!    Try this link:

http://dgmssc.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dtn/dtn2/en/transportation_publication_and_policy1_e.asp
 

 

[Timmy!]

Ah yes... the DIN. I"m at home now. Just got off a night shift of plowing. I"m lucky to go on the DIN these days to just check my e-mail. I"m always on the road. Does the TD's state anything Mr. Wallace? They are located in the back of the book.

Regards,
Mr Plow

 

[George Wallace]

Ah yes... the DIN. I"m at home now. Just got off a night shift of plowing. I"m lucky to go on the DIN these days to just check my e-mail. I"m always on the road. Does the TD's state anything Mr. Wallace? They are located in the back of the book.

Regards,
Mr Plow

Scrolling through a couple hundred TD's there was nothing that I could find that was in ref this matter.

 

[Timmy!]

I"m a little rusty here..  there is a water down (user friendly) version of the 158-5. I believe it's MB-003 or MB-001.. either or. One is the Driver Regulations and the other is the Dangerous Good PAM. It's been a while, but may be that Driver Manual/Regulation can help you out. Hopfully it can shed some light on this subject.

Regards,
Mr. Plow

 

[mariomike]

HOURS OF SERVICE
Ontario HTA link removed.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Which we don't have to abide by.

 

[mariomike]

Which we don't have to abide by.

I didn't mean to imply that you did.
I'll remove the link, if I can.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Nah leave it, might be beneficial for someone.....

 

[gaspasser]

HOURS OF SERVICE
Ontario HTA link removed.

My change in here...
If you're talking about how long drivers can drive...MSEOps here have to follow OHT HoS for commercial operators.  Which basically are: you can drive 10 hours for 12 or 13 hours on duty.  So, if I leave here at 0800, I must pull over at 2000, or close to it. For some reason MDOs and MSEOps here aren't allowed to sleep in the sleeper...sucks, that's $50 out my pocket!..
Oh, and the MSEO makes us use logbooks...to prove we worked properly and if pulled over !
What the field people do is their business, but don't get hauled over and tell the cop you've been driving beyond that!!
Cheers, BYTD

 

[helpup]

Here is a twist that I could use help in getting a answer on.  I have a Pte who was slated to go on his Drv Wheel Crse.  He lost his licence in Dec ( court case happened ) for speeding.  Since he lost his licence they would not put him on the course in Jan.  He did not have 404's prior to his court case.  If we don't need a civi licence to have 404's ( and I know we don't ) then why does his record on civi licence affect him being put on a Drv Crse.  I think this ties in to the new Drag Racing Laws, Dangerous driving record or something like that.  Still what we have is a young 20 year old who was speeding ( and being stupid for the amount he was going over ) He has learned his lesson the hard way, and yet we wont give this man a driving qualification that in my trade means he will be supervised in most of his driving tasks. Taught how to drive safely and Defensively. 

Any thoughts?

 

[George Wallace]

READ the Transportation Manual and your questions will be answered.

SUSPENSION AND REINSTATEMENT OF DND DRIVER/OPERATOR PERMIT
18. The holding of a DND Driver’s permit is a privilege not a right and may be suspended or permanently revoked at any time in the interest of safety by the issuing authority/TA. Factors, which could necessitate this administrative action, are: criminal code offences; numerous preventable collisions; unsafe driving practice; PDL suspensions; etc. The Permit shall only be reinstated once the issuing authority/TA is satisfied that the member/employee has undergone any remedial training that the issuing authority/TA has deemed necessary (i.e., DDC, etc.). Refer to Section 3 for action to be taken in case of PDL suspension.

PDL SUSPENSION
33. The policy and procedures governing the suspension of the DND Driver/Operator Permit, due to the suspension of the PDL, for CF members and DND employees are contained in:

     a. Civilian Personnel. TD 531 (includes sample letter of warning).
     b. Military Personnel. TD 532 (includes sample letter of warning).

34. The decision of a court of law, for any administrative purpose, to re-instate a member’s PDL pending hearing of the case, does not justify the re-instatement of the member’s DND Driver/Operator Permit and/or driving privileges. The DND Driver/Operator Permit shall only be reinstated once the issuing authority is satisfied that:

     a. The member/employee has fulfilled all obligations required by the Provincial licensing authority for the reinstatement of their PDL (any
                costs associated with reinstatement of the PDL shall be borne by the member/employee).
     b. The member/employee has undergone any remedial training the issuing authority deems necessary (i.e., DDC, etc.).

 

[helpup]

That actually is on my "to do" list this morning.

 

[helpup]

Thanks George you saved me some searching. 

Now the point I want to re-interate is this kid doesn't have 404's and would have to go through the DDC and Drv Wheel Crse prior to getting them.  I understand if they do not want to put him on it due to his loss of civi licence ( I understand but do not agree with ) And with the passages you have shown outside of the caveat of they feel it is a safety issue. This deals with suspension/ revoking of 404's if you have a loss of civi licence after you already are a Mil Driver.  This kid does not fit that profile.  Granted the time of his suspension is close to the time we want to put him on course for it.  But that in part is the court time lag as the actual offence occurred almost a year ago.  He would also by taking his DDC meet some of the guidelines for being able to get his 404's back.

 

[Timmy!]

If the lad doesn't have a PDL before having a 404's... I personally think he would be fine for a DDC/DVR WHEEL Course. If my memory is correct, you do not require a PDL to operate a DND vehicle. But on other terms I heard you could not leave DND property without a PDL.

May be that second part is just rumour. I honestly don't recall anymore. I operate, not drive a desk, like MSE Safety (eww). 


Regards,
Mr Plow

 

[George Wallace]

It states that it is at the discretion of the TA whether or not a 404 will be issued if the member has an offence or suspension on their PDL. 

Why issue a 404, only to revoke it for a civilian offence?

A DDC, is not a Lic, so there should be no problem loading members on such courses.  Dvr Wheel is a completely different story.

You do not need a PDL to leave DND property if you hold a valid 404.  A 404 can, however, be issued that restricts a driver to driving only on DND property.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

This whole thread would be unnecessary if people followed the rules and didn't put themselves in a position where they have to show or surrender either their PDL or 404 to the authorities.

 

[helpup]

Well the answer I got was " we don't allow those who lost a civi licence to drive a military vehicle until they have gone through corrective training and or punishment. "
- I pointed out he does not have a mil licence yet.
-they point out " well that is our policy and it is clearly stated. "
- I point out " your right it does state that if you are currently a 404's holder"
-they point out " so where is the difficulty"

this ranks up there with the dumbest thing I have heard today.

Anyhow my plan of action is to hit our Tn to send a letter to MSE.  Explain the situation again and state we realize the policy ( see a$$ covering )
In said letter explain that for corrective measures we placed this guy on the DDC and would like to continue with his corrective measures Safe backing 404's Mil Pat but no A1 B1 ( civi pattern. ) he will be properly supervised at all stages and evaluated for a minimum of a year ( we get our driver and with luck LAV drv )  Personally I don't care if he gets his civi licence back.  But at this early stage of career and for the Tour having him Driver qualified will help. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

That's why, at one time, our A vehicles (tanks, carriers, Ferrets, etc) weren't on our 404's. They were exempt. You took the course, got the qualification and it went into your UER. That way some non pointy end Master Driver 5,000 miles away couldn't tell us Tpr Bloggins wasn't allowed to operate said vehicle on ex or ops, and threw a fuck into your crew/Tp/Sqn orbat, because of a problem with his 404's or PDL.

Life was so much simpler before self important empire builders gained a foot hold.

 

[Timmy!]

Anyhow my plan of action is to hit our Tn to send a letter to MSE.  Explain the situation again and state we realize the policy ( see a$$ covering )
In said letter explain that for corrective measures we placed this guy on the DDC and would like to continue with his corrective measures Safe backing 404's Mil Pat but no A1 B1 ( civi pattern. ) he will be properly supervised at all stages and evaluated for a minimum of a year ( we get our driver and with luck LAV drv )  Personally I don't care if he gets his civi licence back.  But at this early stage of career and for the Tour having him Driver qualified will help. 

A DDC course with safe backing automatically gives you A1 B1.. but I strongly believe in a road test at the end. Not just for him.. but for everyone in CF.
I"m just wondering what is the pre req for the LAV? Air brakes? Or is that included in the LAV course? If it's nothing major, then I honestly see no problem. And that is coming from the MSE field.

Regards,
Mr Plow


Recceguy.. I totally agree with the whole UER concept. Some things in the CF should of been left alone.