Staffing PRes Summer IT (From: Cutting the CF/DND HQ bloat)

[Harris]

Shouldn't the sytem be looking at why is Meaford preceived as being such a terrible place to work?  Why don't the instructors want to go there?

 

[OldSolduer]

Shouldn't the sytem be looking at why is Meaford preceived as being shuch a terrible place to work?  Why don't the instructors want to go there?

If some of the horror stories I've heard are true I can hazard a guess why.

 

[Dkeh]

Shouldn't the sytem be looking at why Meaford is a terrible place to work?  Why don't the instructors want to go there?

Fixed.

I have heard a few reasons, such as instructors not getting to go home on weekends, getting treated like candidates, the weather, lack of phone coverage (fixed now), bugs, poison ivy, etc. Basically, why would they go to that place, when they could go somewhere nicer.

Another possibility no one has mentioned is that a large part of the Reserves in southern Ontario go to Meaford ROUTINELY, whereas places like Wainwright, Gagetown, etc are a treat. Why would they take a summer tasking to a place they go every few weekends, when they can go somewhere different?

 

[dangerboy]

It is a lot harder to get instructors from one area to instruct in another area, with the exception of Gagetown for national courses.  Why would LFCA units send instructors to LFWA to instruct LFWA candidates and vice versa.

 

[McG]

It is a lot harder to get instructors from one area to instruct in another area, with the exception of Gagetown for national courses. 

I wouldn't be certain that it is easy for schools running national courses to get staff out of the areas.  I have known of certain LF Areas to declare that no external taskings would be filled before all tasks were filled in the Area's TC - even when it came to supporting MOS for which all occupational training is done in a national school.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

I wouldn't be certain that it is easy for schools running national courses to get staff out of the areas.  I have known of certain LF Areas to declare that no external taskings would be filled before all tasks were filled in the Area's TC - even when it came to supporting MOS for which all occupational training is done in a national school.

I think I know of this area MCG  ;D at least this year they have allowed members out.... but still I know that we are in a bad shape only standing at about 51% manning.... 41/80 CFTPO positions filled.....

 

[Fishbone Jones]

One solution, in LFCA anyway, is to decentralize Regional Summer Training (RST) back to the brigades to run for thier own soldiers in their own geographical areas rather than shoe-horning everyone into Meaford. 

Another solution - which I know is being entetrtained (not entirely successfully) in LFCA - is split taskings.  (If you're only available for 2 or 3 weeks and the course is six weeks, split the task between two instructors.)

There are many ways to skin a cat.  We just have to get the cat out of Meaford.

How about some comments from those in LFAA, SQFT and LFWA.  Do similar challenges exist and how were they overcome?

We've asked for those options and been turned down.

We also provide, regularly, enough instructors for our own candidates. If not more. If the other Units don't send enough instructors, at least let us instruct our own people instead of penalizing us for others failings.

 

[OldSolduer]

We also provide, regularly, enough instructors for our own candidates. If not more. If the other Units don't send enough instructors, at least let us instruct our own people instead of penalizing us for others failings.

I didn't know you were from Winnipeg Infantry Tac Group.....

 

[a_majoor]

Shouldn't the sytem be looking at why is Meaford preceived as being such a terrible place to work?  Why don't the instructors want to go there?

Getting down to first principles; Meaford is only set up with the physical infrastructure for @ 300 people max. Watching everyone running around with their heads cut off when TF-1-10 sent 450 people to Meaford for IBTS training (in Sept, when there were no other competing courses or drains on their resources) was very instructive.

Now wedge 600-1000 people into that space for summer RST and imagine what happens. As an exampple, getting a 1/4 defense pack for my 50 man platoon to do the defensive training exercise and you should start to understand what instructors and staff have to deal with.

Add in an obtuse CBO staff and a fully manned and equipped kitchen that can't match the performance of 6 cooks and a kitchen trailer at Aspeden after the G-8 (cooking hot, plentiful and delicious food for @ 2000 people; that's impressive) and there is no upside to doing RST in Meaford. The fact that 99% of thise issues have been identified year after year w/o resolution or change should go a long way to explain why Meaford is not the "Employer of Choice".

 

[Dkeh]

...and a fully manned and equipped kitchen that can't match the performance of 6 cooks and a kitchen trailer...

Excellent point. I forgot about that. In laymans terms, the food sucks, hard. Every place I have ever been has had better food than Meaford. I understand that cooking for 1000+ is by no means an easy task, but the food in Wainwright, Borden, Trenton, etc is better by leaps and bounds.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Excellent point. I forgot about that. In laymans terms, the food sucks, hard. Every place I have ever been has had better food than Meaford. I understand that cooking for 1000+ is by no means an easy task, but the food in Wainwright, Borden, Trenton, etc is better by leaps and bounds.

Guess you haven't been to gagetown then........food has gone down hill considerably since the closure of both the Officers and SNCO's eating mess.....

 

[PuckChaser]

Guess you haven't been to gagetown then........food has gone down hill considerably since the closure of both the Officers and SNCO's eating mess.....

Wasn't Meaford bad, but I'll agree it was subpar when I was there on predeployment training. Couple that with having to shave on weekends to go eat at the mess... I just ate out a lot.

 

[Remius]

Well there could be a lot of reasons.

But I wonder how much the class b cuts have to do with this. In  2010 the Army (LFCA at least) cut a lot of daytime class b staff.  Some units had them all cut.  These people found work elsewhere.

These were people that were/could have been tasked.  Now we have units that cannot/might send  anyone because it would put them below minimum manning. 

Also, I'd wager that instructor fatigue is an issue.  If you've spent four summers in a row teaching in Meaford, asking or expecting something else seems normal to me.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Wasn't Meaford bad, but I'll agree it was subpar when I was there on predeployment training. Couple that with having to shave on weekends to go eat at the mess... I just ate out a lot.

Yeah just heard about the "must shave on weekends to eat at mess" thingy... good thing I don't eat at the mess on weekends.....  ;D

 

[Cardstonkid]

The issue of staffing for summer courses is vexing at the best of times, but it seems to be getting worse.


Most of my Sgt's and MBdr's  have been teaching courses all fall and winter. Then they get the pressure to take their summer off to teach in Shilo. It is too much to ask. The Reserves are too small to do all that is asked of them. The Reg Force is too small to grow the Reserves, without the help of the Reserves. It is a catch 22.  Frankly, we need many more RSS. We could even have Reserve contracts to fill a similar purpose, but they would need multi -year contracts to make it marketable. The solution won't happen easily or quickly, but as always, the Army will do more with less.

More with Less should be the motto of the Army, after all, it is its curse and its blessing.

 

[Infanteer]

What is the solution?
Does the military restructure the training so reg and res recruits train together like the USMC does?
Could that be a possible cost saving measure as well?

RSS postings are being filled again, so this should help (we know what they are doing every summer).

To answer the million dollar question you posed, I offer two points:

1.  Guys in SNCO ranks tend to have jobs that they can't leave.  We need to acknowledge this in the way we restructure reserve training.  What level do we really need reservists to operate at.  I think the general consensus is that Reservists will (or should) be used as augmentees or as formed platoons/companies after Roto 0 (ie. There is time to train them).  In that case, we can probably afford a wide delta between reservist and regular force skill sets.  Taking another look at what we need to train Reservists is probably required.

2.  Critical to this is, in my opinion, the CT/IT ratio.  Can the same training objectives be met by integrating affiliated reserve platoons/companies with their Reg Force counterparts?  A lot of Reserve horsepower and resources goes into creating exercises (this seems to tap a lot of the available time) where we integrate leadership training and other sorts of skills.  Do you want to use NCO hours to run a PLQ or do you want to give Reserve Cpls/MCpls time to lead actual sections in good, sustained Regular Force exercises?

 

[OldSolduer]

RSS postings are being filled again, so this should help (we know what they are doing every summer).

So when are you coming to Winnipeg...... >

 

[MJP]

So when are you coming to Winnipeg...... >

I think they want to send good people...  ;D

 

[Infanteer]

What are you talking about - the only guys that go to Winnipeg are our cast-off loggie types!  >

 

[GAP]

What are you talking about - the only guys that go to Winnipeg are our cast-off loggie types!  >

Oh....neat!! That means they keep the good ones in Edmonton?  ;D