Standing Contingency Task Force: A Canadian Marine Unit?
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FSTO
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Ex-Dragoon said:
Underwater mines and other obstacles within the surf (20 metre depth line) are the clearance diver responsibilities. Bosn's are responsible for the beach area (I don't think it has been decided how far inland the bosn's will be responsible for). But I would think that the Boatswains and Combat Engineers will share that responsibility within the SCF for the foreseeable future.
As for demolition training, the bosn's get their first exposure on their QL3's and receive more training at each QL level. On another note we are negotiating with the CE for them to come out to Bentinck Island to build some structures for us to take down ;D. Make the training a little more realistic.
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FSTO said:
For what it's worth, the current edition of the Maple Leaf (p. 3) has a pic captioned "Clearance Divers take up position after securing beach. I've learned to put little faith in what appears in popular media, but there's the implication that the Clearance Divers were responsible for securing the beach.
And it may have been a posed pic, but with them sailors all snuggled together like that, a bad guy would just need one itsy-bitsy grenade
FSTO
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Journeyman said:For what it's worth, the current edition of the Maple Leaf (p. 3) has a pic captioned "Clearance Divers take up position after securing beach. I've learned to put little faith in what appears in popular media, but there's the implication that the Clearance Divers were responsible for securing the beach.
And it may have been a posed pic, but with them sailors all snuggled together like that, a bad guy would just need one itsy-bitsy grenade
Its all in the experimental stage.
daftandbarmy
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As with any amphibious operation, the actual micro-task, obstacle clearance in this case, is only a tiny part of the overall strategic and operational requirements for success. NGS, CAS and other types of air support, surface and sub-surface naval support, foreign affairs etc etc are all part of the equation leading up to a demo team successfully messing around at the tide line in a foreign country. If we're going this way as a military, it's definately a go big or go home type of scenario. I trust we'll focus on getting the big picture right before committing people to these kind of tasks in an actual operational scenario.
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I know I saw something about this on the DIN a month or two ago about making a new SF unit out west. I don't recall the name of it. Something along the lines of Reconnaissance...something something. I tried the search on this site and on the din and have got nothing. I know the clip talked about using Pathfinders and clearance divers and using them for beachhead landings and such. All I'm looking for is the clip or the name of this unit...if I'm way out to lunch and I might be....or maybe I just dream about units like this I don't know but any help is good help. Thanks
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Not a lot of info yet - but here is an article on it from the CBC
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/03/06/military-force.html
Canadian military creating amphibious force
Last Updated: Wednesday, March 7, 2007 | 12:02 AM ET
CBC News
The Canadian military is about to create a special forces unit unlike anything it has had before, CBC News has learned.
The force, which will include 800 soldiers, sailors and air force personnel, will be mainly focused on maritime operations, but will also focus on areas such as counter-terrorism, sources said.
The force will be equipped with helicopters, submarines and possibly a leased amphibious assault ship — a vessel that can bring ashore and support ground troops.
"Think of it as something like a mini United States Marine Corps," the CBC's Rob Gordon reported Tuesday from New Glasgow, N.S.
The marines, with about 200,000 troops, is a branch of the U.S. Navy that operates on land, sea and in the air.
Canada has studied the possibility of having a special force for a year, and sources told Gordon the military is now ready to move ahead with plans. No details were available about when the force will be operational.
The force will be able to work within Canada, assisting with coastal disasters where civilians are at risk.
The force will also be able to assist the Canadian military in its operations around the world. The military hopes the force will increase its global presence, Gordon reported.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/03/06/military-force.html
Canadian military creating amphibious force
Last Updated: Wednesday, March 7, 2007 | 12:02 AM ET
CBC News
The Canadian military is about to create a special forces unit unlike anything it has had before, CBC News has learned.
The force, which will include 800 soldiers, sailors and air force personnel, will be mainly focused on maritime operations, but will also focus on areas such as counter-terrorism, sources said.
The force will be equipped with helicopters, submarines and possibly a leased amphibious assault ship — a vessel that can bring ashore and support ground troops.
"Think of it as something like a mini United States Marine Corps," the CBC's Rob Gordon reported Tuesday from New Glasgow, N.S.
The marines, with about 200,000 troops, is a branch of the U.S. Navy that operates on land, sea and in the air.
Canada has studied the possibility of having a special force for a year, and sources told Gordon the military is now ready to move ahead with plans. No details were available about when the force will be operational.
The force will be able to work within Canada, assisting with coastal disasters where civilians are at risk.
The force will also be able to assist the Canadian military in its operations around the world. The military hopes the force will increase its global presence, Gordon reported.
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Further to my last ... guess it is on hold
http://thechronicleherald.ca/NovaScotia/563433.html
Assault ship plans on hold
By CHRIS LAMBIE Staff Reporter
ADVERTISEMENT
Gen. Rick Hillier is putting off plans to acquire a big honking ship until after the 2010 Olympics.
The chief of the defence staff’s idea of creating a rapid reaction force that could travel in an amphibious assault ship to intervene in failed or failing states around the world has been shelved for at least three years.
The reasons: pressures stemming from Canada’s mission in Afghanistan as well as the military’s role to provide security for the upcoming Vancouver games.
"I’ve had to take a bit of an appetite suppressant," Gen. Hillier told the Ottawa Citizen in a recent interview.
Two years ago, under a Liberal government, the charismatic general released a plan to acquire a navy amphibious assault ship that defence analysts say could cost $1 billion.
The ambitious blueprint included building a rapid response task force by 2010 that could carry 800 soldiers, with their equipment and weapons and helicopters, to hot spots.
But those plans appear to have largely been put on hold.
A list of senior military appointments released this week shows Commodore Paul Maddison, who was commander of the military’s standing contingency force, will be appointed assistant chief of military personnel at National Defence headquarters in Ottawa.
"He is posted into a new job without replacement," said Cmdr. Jeff Agnew of navy public affairs.
Canada borrowed an American amphibious ship last fall to practice landings in North Carolina. And at its height, about 50 people were working on developing the standing contingency force concept, Cmdr. Agnew said.
A $2-million headquarters for the force the military is planning to build at Shearwater will be used for other purposes.
But the idea of creating the force isn’t finished, Cmdr. Agnew said. A "small cadre of people" will be transferred to the military’s experimentation centre in Ottawa and the maritime warfare centre in Halifax, where they will continue to look at ways to better integrate the military’s land, sea and air forces, he said.
Money isn’t the reason for the changes, Cmdr. Agnew said.
"We find ourselves with Afghanistan," he said. "We’re getting ready for the 2010 Olympics. We’re introducing new equipment. We’re doing a lot of recruiting right now and when you recruit people, you have to train people.
"Basically, we do not have enough time and people to do everything we want to do. . . . After the Olympics is done in 2010, we will be able to revisit in earnest the development of (the standing contingency force)."
Putting the plan on hold for three years raises questions about the military’s ability to transform itself into a highly mobile force, said Eric Lerhe, a retired commodore living in Dartmouth.
"It’s not saying much about our capacity, or it’s saying a whole bunch about the extent to which Afghanistan is really limiting our ability to transform our armed forces and to do anything beyond a support to the Olympics," said Mr. Lerhe, a research fellow at Dalhousie University’s Centre for Foreign Policy Studies.
"I find that kind of worrying. What if a major problem occurred in the world?"
Gen. Hillier has also said he wishes the Forces would grow faster. The Conservative government has promised to add 13,000 soldiers to the regular force and another 10,000 reservists.
No deadline has been given for that expansion, said Capt. Holly Brown of Canadian Forces Recruiting Group.
"It’s going to take longer than five years," Capt. Brown said.
In the last fiscal year, the recruiting target was 5,500 people for the regular force, she said.
"We actually recruited close to 5,900 last year," Capt. Brown said. "And then this year, our targets are about 6,400. We’re going to hit that."
The military has "found ways to speed things up a bit," she said, pointing to last fall’s move to relax fitness standards for new recruits.
"If there’s no complications, you meet all the entrance requirements (and) everything’s tickety-boo, you could get an offer within a week," she said.
The military is especially keen to recruit naval and air force electronics technicians and crew for armoured vehicles, she said.
http://thechronicleherald.ca/NovaScotia/563433.html
Assault ship plans on hold
By CHRIS LAMBIE Staff Reporter
ADVERTISEMENT
Gen. Rick Hillier is putting off plans to acquire a big honking ship until after the 2010 Olympics.
The chief of the defence staff’s idea of creating a rapid reaction force that could travel in an amphibious assault ship to intervene in failed or failing states around the world has been shelved for at least three years.
The reasons: pressures stemming from Canada’s mission in Afghanistan as well as the military’s role to provide security for the upcoming Vancouver games.
"I’ve had to take a bit of an appetite suppressant," Gen. Hillier told the Ottawa Citizen in a recent interview.
Two years ago, under a Liberal government, the charismatic general released a plan to acquire a navy amphibious assault ship that defence analysts say could cost $1 billion.
The ambitious blueprint included building a rapid response task force by 2010 that could carry 800 soldiers, with their equipment and weapons and helicopters, to hot spots.
But those plans appear to have largely been put on hold.
A list of senior military appointments released this week shows Commodore Paul Maddison, who was commander of the military’s standing contingency force, will be appointed assistant chief of military personnel at National Defence headquarters in Ottawa.
"He is posted into a new job without replacement," said Cmdr. Jeff Agnew of navy public affairs.
Canada borrowed an American amphibious ship last fall to practice landings in North Carolina. And at its height, about 50 people were working on developing the standing contingency force concept, Cmdr. Agnew said.
A $2-million headquarters for the force the military is planning to build at Shearwater will be used for other purposes.
But the idea of creating the force isn’t finished, Cmdr. Agnew said. A "small cadre of people" will be transferred to the military’s experimentation centre in Ottawa and the maritime warfare centre in Halifax, where they will continue to look at ways to better integrate the military’s land, sea and air forces, he said.
Money isn’t the reason for the changes, Cmdr. Agnew said.
"We find ourselves with Afghanistan," he said. "We’re getting ready for the 2010 Olympics. We’re introducing new equipment. We’re doing a lot of recruiting right now and when you recruit people, you have to train people.
"Basically, we do not have enough time and people to do everything we want to do. . . . After the Olympics is done in 2010, we will be able to revisit in earnest the development of (the standing contingency force)."
Putting the plan on hold for three years raises questions about the military’s ability to transform itself into a highly mobile force, said Eric Lerhe, a retired commodore living in Dartmouth.
"It’s not saying much about our capacity, or it’s saying a whole bunch about the extent to which Afghanistan is really limiting our ability to transform our armed forces and to do anything beyond a support to the Olympics," said Mr. Lerhe, a research fellow at Dalhousie University’s Centre for Foreign Policy Studies.
"I find that kind of worrying. What if a major problem occurred in the world?"
Gen. Hillier has also said he wishes the Forces would grow faster. The Conservative government has promised to add 13,000 soldiers to the regular force and another 10,000 reservists.
No deadline has been given for that expansion, said Capt. Holly Brown of Canadian Forces Recruiting Group.
"It’s going to take longer than five years," Capt. Brown said.
In the last fiscal year, the recruiting target was 5,500 people for the regular force, she said.
"We actually recruited close to 5,900 last year," Capt. Brown said. "And then this year, our targets are about 6,400. We’re going to hit that."
The military has "found ways to speed things up a bit," she said, pointing to last fall’s move to relax fitness standards for new recruits.
"If there’s no complications, you meet all the entrance requirements (and) everything’s tickety-boo, you could get an offer within a week," she said.
The military is especially keen to recruit naval and air force electronics technicians and crew for armoured vehicles, she said.
$1 Billion that seems a little high. The HMS Ocean cost about $352.19 million in 1998 so a like ship could be had for around $500 million at the most fro a billion we could have two wich would be better one on each coast. Indeed what Hiller is asking for is basicly and Ocean class Landing Platform heck we could cut cost though buying the HMS Invincible and re-fitting her to the Ocean class (the Ocean class is a moded Invincble class anyways)
ArmyRick
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Yeah but the canadian approach would probably be to put out a request for bids, do a million hours of research on something (when the research is already done), evaluate it, change it (Canadianize it), make sure the project doesn't upset anybody, By now the government has changed so now the dynamics of the project changes, re-evaluate it, make more changes, finally get on with awarding the contract and build it.
So big honking ships in......2020?
Like Bdog said, just buy off the shelf already. (Reference Ocean)
So big honking ships in......2020?
Like Bdog said, just buy off the shelf already. (Reference Ocean)
the sad thing is a lot of people whining about this are the same people who all mad about how hard it was for us to get our citizens out of Lebanonduring the hostilities between Israel and the terrorists this summer. I was thinking at that time that ship like HMS Ocean would have been perfect for that operation or any other operation were rapid deployment of humanitarian response is needed. But oh nobut when you talk about mobile landing ships and Marine Corpssome will start thinking Team America World Police:the Canadian edition, we have no idea that a such as this fits so perfectly within there certain view of Canadian military operations.
daftandbarmy
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But can they see the Territorial Defense Bns from there?
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aesop081
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daftandbarmy said:
....or Trenton's airborne battalion
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aesop081
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tomahawk6 said:
We expanded JTF and created CSOR............i beleive that covers what you are proposing
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