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Status on Victoria-class Submarines?

I wonder if the canceled Polar Class 8 was considered to be named CCGS Labrador. The original 1985 plan for the ship was nuclear propulsion, which the US totally freaked out over that. Global security has an article on it.
The ship was, of course, canceled just prior to cutting steel.
 
We had a chunk of the Polar 8 test steel stored at the Hovercraft base, so technically I am one of the few that every saw it in real life :)
 
Colin P said:
We had a chunk of the Polar 8 test steel stored at the Hovercraft base, so technically I am one of the few that every saw it in real life :)

Whoa, they actually cut steel for the Polar 8 Project? I didn't know it got past the paper design in any way whatsoever. Wouldn't that icebreaker have been one of the best non-nuclear ones around even today?
 
It would have been impressive, one model/drawing I saw even had a SRN-6 hovercraft on davits on one side.
 
http://mapleleafnavy.com/2018/02/24/windsor-sails-for-exercise-dynamic-manta-in-mediterranean/

The Royal Canadian Navy announced February 24th that submarine HMCS Windsor has sailed for the Mediterranean to take part in NATO Exercise Dynamic Manta-L 18.

NATO describes it: “To exercise submarine warfare and ASW (antisubmarine warfare) warfighting capabilities for submarines, ASW surface units and maritime aircraft in order to conduct sea control and sea denial related naval tasks in preparation for future collective defense and crisis response operations.”

20 years after acquisition, it is good to see two Canadian submarines deployed in ASW target duties, with HMCS Chicoutimi currently on operating in Asian waters. Canada can now truly assist allied combatants in training for this vital component of naval warfare.

The multinational training will run from March 5-16 2018.
 
Couldn't find a link for DM 18 but here's some more on the ex...great ASW ex and training for the RCN folks and for folks in my line of work to fly on NATO SSK/SSN.  Nice to see a RCN boat in the players list this year.

Dynamic Manta 2017

Moosemilk planned for the International Party at ENDEX  :cheers: 
 
2 out of 4 submarines currently deployed on operations & exercises is actually pretty fantastic!!  Way to go RCN leadership, honestly. 

Considering there are fellow NATO members that can't currently deploy any submarines, or possibly only 1 or 2 also - the RCN submarine force is doing pretty good given it's size. 

Great job to the crews & leadership.  Lots to be learned in these exercises, fantastic learning opportunities.
 
Yup, we're not the only NATO country who is in the hurt locker for funding for our submarine service...

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/germany-does-not-have-one-working-submarine-23688

Manta is a really good exercise overall;  I've done several and will be going over for this one again.  Last year we got to work with a CPF and AirDet (which is rare, oddly enough...), this year with a V-boat.  Next year it would be nice to see a LRP Det, SSK, and a surface force complete with a CH-148 Det. 
 
CAF Operations Article Link

HMCS Windsor, two CP-140 Aurora aircraft, and approximately 140 Canadian Armed Forces members are participating in NATO's Exercise DYNAMIC MANTA alongside 5,000 allies from 10 other countries.

This annual exercise is designed to sharpen the Alliance's collective defence by honing the participants' skills in anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare.
-----------------------------------------------------

Great picture of Windsor alongside in Augusta, Sicily before the EX started in this Janes article.

HMCS Windsor completes BQQ-10 sonar fit

We (my crew) had an unexpected surprise earlier during the EX;  an invitation to go down to Augusta to meet the crew and get a tour of the boat.  I'd never been inside a sub before and it was an amazing and eye-opening experience.  Living spaces - prisoners have nothing to complain about, trust me.  I think the galley on the Aurora might actually be a bit bigger than the galley on our SSKs.  Hats off to this group of professionals for doing what they do in the service of our great country - each and every day is truly a sacrifice and I don't know if I'll be able to complain about things like how tired I am after a 10+ hour mission again - these folks don't have a ladder to walk down after their watch that leads to the rental car...

Thanks to the skipper and crew for a great afternoon;  the next time I see you guys you'll look more like the pic attached.  ;)
 

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Eye In The Sky said:
the next time I see you guys you'll look more like the pic attached.  ;)

You wish!  ;D

The nice thing about the Windsor is how luxurious the accommodations are compared to the previous "O" boats class.  :nod:
 
Oldgateboatdriver said:
You wish!  ;D

I can't confirm or deny if a RCAF MPA successfully exercised against a RCN SSK  :whistle:

The nice thing about the Windsor is how luxurious the accommodations are compared to the previous "O" boats class.  :nod:

If the V-boats are considered "luxurious"...wow.  Most of the Jnr Rates bunks looked like they'd have a hard time comfortably fitting 3 loaves of bread in them!!
 
Excluding our politicians, what is the Navy's view of submarines as part of our future force?

Do they believe 4 is sufficient?

Or for next generation will they be lobbying for more?

:salute:
 
If it were me, I’d think 6 was a reasonable and attainable number. Even 5 would mean 1 for each task force, 1 on patrol each coast and 1 in deep maintenance.
 
Actually, Blackshirt, it is difficult to ask serving members that may be involved in advising the Government to indicate in public what the view of the Navy is.

However, The Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence released a report in May 2017 titled Reinvesting in the Canadian Armed Forces - A Plan for the Future. They derived their recommendations further to holding extensive hearings of multiple expert witnesses, including many serving and even more numerous recently retired generals and admirals, for the naval portion. So their recommendations are probably very indicative of the views of the Navy.

The final recommendations on make up of the Navy called for 18 Surface Combatant, 12 submarines (six per coast), four AOR - 2 Resolve for home waters and 2 PRO for deployment, and the replacement of all 12 MCDV's by proper fully equipped mine sweepers/hunters. Finally, they strongly suggested a review of the AOPS program to determine if spending all that money on such limited capability is worth it.

Surprisingly enough (he said, sarcastically), that report does not appear to have been taken into consideration by the Government when drafting its most recent Defence Policy.
 
Oldgateboatdriver said:
However, The Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence released a report in May 2017 titled Reinvesting in the Canadian Armed Forces - A Plan for the Future.
The report can be found here.  While sometimes the Senate draws whining negative comments for being a bunch of 'unelected, old white guys,' they do have the potential benefit of being able to look at issues outside of party politics' blinders (where re-election sound bites are the overarching concern rather than honest appraisal), unlike House of Commons' committees.

Surprisingly enough (he said, sarcastically), that report does not appear to have been taken into consideration by the Government when drafting its most recent Defence Policy.
Of course they did; the Senate Report mentions "gender" FOUR times in the section on Reflecting Canada's Diversity (plus a fifth time where they felt a need to reiterate the full list of the Dechamps' Report recommendations).  :nod:

The government just chose to ignore all those pesky "investment" recommendations... something from the Defence Policy that they continued quite strongly in the Federal Budget ("gender," good; 352 mentions -- actual "economics," what?; 3 mentions [all tied to employing women])


/non-submarine tangent  (but Oldgateboatdriver started it  :whistle: )


 
 
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/14/politics/uss-hartford-nuclear-submarine-arctic/index.html

The Arctic......why is it only US and British subs training up there....oh wait, we've got nothing that can train up there during the months of Feb/March.  This is capability that we need....
 
Czech_pivo said:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/14/politics/uss-hartford-nuclear-submarine-arctic/index.html

The Arctic......why is it only US and British subs training up there....oh wait, we've got nothing that can train up there during the months of Feb/March.  This is capability that we need....

Because they're nuclear and Canada does not want that. Invest 100 Billion and we'll have that capability.
 
Chief Stoker said:
Because they're nuclear and Canada does not want that. Invest 100 Billion and we'll have that capability.
Nuclear-powered submarines using pressurized-water reactors are indeed very expensive.  But there may be less-expensive nuclear reactors—SLOWPOKE reactors.
Heat from a low-power nuclear reactor could be used to generate steam to drive a turbo-alternator for charging submarine batteries. This small "n" SSn would provide SSN endurance (albeit at lower speeds) for significantly less than an SSN price tag.
The quote is from PDF page 13:
http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2015/mdn-dnd/D12-21-1991-3-eng.pdf
 
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