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Syria Superthread [merged]

Dominic Campbell (no relation, as far as I know), founder and director of Futuregov, asks "How is it that we had all the information we needed to take action against Iraq and Afghanistan yet we are still delaying on Syria?" and then answers his own question when he says, "Bush and Blair had leadership but no moral justification, Obama and Cameron have moral justification but no leadership."
 
Thomas Mulcair stated on CFRA in Ottawa about an hour ago that he supports action against Syria. While he tap danced a bit, he also did not insist on UN approval.
 
Not entirely surprising ....
Young Canadians are hurrying to Syria in record numbers to join rebels in their fight against the Assad regime, raising fears among security services at home about Al Qaeda’s access to Western recruits.

It is estimated that at least 100 Canadians — mainly in their 20s and coming from Ontario and Alberta — have left for Syria in the past year, joining a steady march of foreigners drawn to the conflict, security sources say.

“Our government is acutely aware of this issue,” said Frederik Boisvert, spokesman for Public Safety Minister Steven Blaney, noting Ottawa passed the Combating Terrorism Act in April, which makes it a crime to leave the country — or even attempt to — to engage in terrorist activities.

(....)

Fighters are leaving Canada for various motives. Horrific imagery of the slaughter by forces loyal to President Bashar Assad is spurring some to join the rebel cause. Others had already adopted Al Qaeda’s global agenda while still in Canada. For them, Syria provides a perfect battleground and has surpassed Afghanistan, Iraq, North or East Africa as the destination of choice.

But the distinction may not matter soon, as Al Qaeda groups extend their territory within Syria, blurring the lines between rebel fighters and those loyal to the terrorist network.

“If they don’t get killed, the concern is what happens when they come home,” said one Canadian official who spoke on the condition of anonymity ....
Toronto Star, 23 Aug 13
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/syria-will-require-more-than-cruise-missiles/2013/08/25/8c8877b8-0daf-11e3-85b6-d27422650fd5_story.html?wpmk=MK0000205

Syria will require more than cruise missiles

Washington Post - Eliot A. Cohen - 25 Aug 13

Eliot A. Cohen teaches at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies. He directed the U.S. Air Force’s Gulf War Air Power Survey from 1991 to 1993.

In 1994, after directing the U.S. Air Force’s official study of the Persian Gulf War, I concluded, “Air power is an unusually seductive form of military strength, in part because, like modern courtship, it appears to offer gratification without commitment.” That observation stands. It explains the Obama administration’s enthusiasm for a massive, drone-led assassination campaign against al-Qaeda terrorists. And it applies with particular force to a prospective, U.S.-led attack on the Syrian government in response to its use of chemical weapons against a civilian population.

President Obama has boxed himself in. He can no longer ignore his own proclamation of a “red line.” The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, in a breach of proper civil-military relations, has publicly telegraphed his skepticism about any use of force in Syria. But the scale, openness and callousness of the Syrian government’s breaking of an important taboo seems likely to compel this president — so proud of his record as a putative war-ender — to launch the warplanes yet again in the Middle East.

The temptation here is to follow the Clinton administration’s course — a futile salvo of cruise missiles, followed by self-congratulation and an attempt to change the topic. It would not work here. A minority regime fighting for its life, as Bashar al-Assad’s is, can weather a couple of dozen big bangs. More important, no one — friends, enemies or neutrals — would be fooled. As weak as the United States now appears in the region and beyond, we would look weaker yet if we chose to act ineffectively. A bout of therapeutic bombing is an even more feckless course of action than a principled refusal to act altogether.

A serious bombing campaign would have substantial targets — most plausibly the Syrian air force, the service once headed by Assad’s father, which gives the regime much of its edge over the rebels, as well as the air defense system and the country’s airports, through which aid arrives from Iran. But should the Obama administration choose any kind of bombing campaign, it needs to face some hard facts.

For one thing, and despite the hopes of some proponents of an air campaign, this would not be surgical. No serious application of air power ever is, despite administration officials’ claims about the drone campaign, which, as we now know, has killed plenty of civilians. A serious bombing campaign means civilian casualties, at our hands. And it may mean U.S. and allied casualties too, because the idea of a serious military effort without risk is fatuous.

The administration would need congressional authorization. Despite his professed commitment to transparency and constitutional niceties, Obama has proved himself reluctant to secure congressional authorization for the use of force, most notably with Libya in 2011. Even if an authorization is conferred retroactively, it needs to be done here because this would be a large use of force; indeed, an act of war.

And it probably would not end cleanly. When the president proclaimed the impending conclusion of the war with al-Qaeda, he disregarded the cardinal fact of strategy: It is (at least) a two-sided game. The other side, not we, gets to decide when it ends. And in this case neither the Syrian government nor its Iranian patrons, nor its Hezbollah, Russian and Chinese allies, may choose to shrug off a bombing campaign. Chess players who think one move ahead usually lose; so do presidents who think they can launch a day or two of strikes and then walk away with a win. The repercussions may be felt in neighboring countries; they may even be felt in the United States, and there is no excuse for ignoring that fact.

Despite all these facts, not to act would be, at this point and by the administration’s own standards, intolerable.

The slaughter in Syria, tolerated for so long, now approaches the same order of magnitude (with the number of dead totaling six figures at least) as Rwanda, but in a strategically more important place. Already it is late, perhaps too late, to prevent Syria from becoming the new Afghanistan or Yemen, home to rabidly anti-Western jihadis. A critical firebreak, the use of chemical weapons on a large scale, has been breached.

No less important, U.S. prestige is on the line. Why should anyone, anywhere, take Obama’s threats (or for that matter, his promises) seriously if he does nothing here? Not to act is to decide, and to decide for an even worse outcome than the one that awaits us.

“War is an option of difficulties,” a British general once remarked *. The question before the president is whether he will make matters worse by convincing himself that he has found a minimal solution to a fiendish problem. He will convince no one else.

* During the arduous campaign that eventually led to the fall of Quebec and French Canada in 1759, the British commander, James Wolfe, commented that “war is an option of difficulties
 
Wasn't there a previous group of UN inspectors who had been fired upon when the Syrian Civil War first started a couple of years ago?

link

UN team investigating possible chemical attack in Syria comes under sniper fire

DAMASCUS, Syria — Snipers opened fire Monday at a UN vehicle belonging to a team investigating the alleged use of chemical weapons in Damascus, a UN spokesman said. The Syrian government accused the rebels of firing at the team.

Martin Nesirky, spokesman for UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, said the vehicle was “deliberately shot at multiple times” in the buffer zone area between rebel- and government-controlled territory.

No one was hurt, but first car in the convoy “was no longer serviceable,” the United Nations said in a statement, forcing the team to turn back.


“The team will return to the area after replacing the vehicle,” the organization said Monday morning.

News of the sniper attack came only a few hours after an Associated Press photographer saw the team members wearing body armour leaving their hotel in Damascus in seven SUVs, headed to the site of the alleged attack.

The photographer said UN disarmament chief Angela Kane saw them off as they left but did not go with them.

Nearly an hour before the team left, several mortar shells fell about 700 metres from their hotel, wounding three people. One of the shells struck a mosque and damaged its minaret, according to an AP reporter on the scene.

World leaders have suggested that an international response to the attack was likely.


The United States has said that there is little doubt that Assad’s regime was responsible for the attack on Aug. 21 in the capital’s eastern suburbs. The group Doctors Without Borders said 355 people were killed in the artillery barrage by regime forces that included the use of toxic gas.

Nesirky said one of the cars used by the team was “no longer serviceable.”

“It has to be stressed again that all sides need to extend their co-operation so that the Team can safely carry out their important work,” he said in emailed comments to The Associated Press.

The Syrian government said the UN team was subjected to fire by “terrorist gangs” while entering the Damascus suburb of Moadamiyeh west of Damascus, one of the areas that the opposition says were targeted by toxic gas in last week’s attack.

The government also says Syrian forces provided safety for the team until they reached a position controlled by the rebels, where it claimed the sniper attack occurred.

“The Syrian government holds the terrorist gangs responsible for the safety of the United Nations team,” said the government statement broadcast on Syrian TV.

President Bashar Assad denied in remarks published Monday that his troops used chemical weapons during the fighting in the rebel-held suburbs.
(...)
 
With the recent news of Obama meeting with Cameron and Harper we can only speculate, but what will happen with Canada in all this?

Is it possible that Harper would put troops on the ground in Syria? This seems farfetched and personally I think putting troops on the ground is a very stupid idea.

But in all honesty, what should we make of it?
 
Jim Seggie said:
Good question. I bet it's not a strongly worded letter......

Anyone know what the postage is for a standard cruise missile?

Seems like the rhetoric got turned up a notch, and things may very well get interesting very soon.

Kerry: Obama determined to hold Syria accountable for using chemical weapons

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/kerry-obama-determined-to-hold-syria-accountable-for-using-chemical-weapons/2013/08/26/599450c2-0e70-11e3-8cdd-bcdc09410972_story.html

 
From The Daily Caller and shared with provisions of The Copyright Act


Israeli intelligence ties Syrian gas attack to Assad


Israeli intelligence can tie the recent gas attack against the Syrian rebels to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s regime, the German publication Focus reports.

“According to the findings of Israeli intelligence community, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad is responsible for the gas attack in Damascus,” reports the publication.

According to FOCUS, the Israel Defense Forces Unit 8200, the IDF’s signals intelligence unit, intercepted communications of the Syrian army during the attack.

“A former Mossad officer told FOCUS the analysis has clearly shown that the bombardment with poison gas missiles was made by Syrian government forces,” reports the publication.

As of 2010, Unit 8200 was estimated to be the largest unit in the IDF.

U.S. Naval War College Professor John Schindler tweeted the story, adding that Israel shared the information with the U.S. and other allies.


 
The Saudis using their oil money to influence the Russians and covertly support the Sunni rebel factions they identify with...

Telegraph link

Saudi Arabia has secretly offered Russia a sweeping deal to control the global oil market and safeguard Russia’s gas contracts, if the Kremlin backs away from the Assad regime in Syria.

The revelations come amid high tension in the Middle East, with US, British, and French warship poised for missile strikes in Syria. Iran has threatened to retaliate.

The strategic jitters pushed Brent crude prices to a five-month high of $112 a barrel. “We are only one incident away from a serious oil spike. The market is a lot tighter than people think,” said Chris Skrebowski, editor of Petroleum Review.

Leaked transcripts of a closed-door meeting between Russia’s Vladimir Putin and Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan shed an extraordinary light on the hard-nosed Realpolitik of the two sides.

Prince Bandar, head of Saudi intelligence, allegedly confronted the Kremlin with a mix of inducements and threats in a bid to break the deadlock over Syria. “Let us examine how to put together a unified Russian-Saudi strategy on the subject of oil. The aim is to agree on the price of oil and production quantities that keep the price stable in global oil markets,” he said at the four-hour meeting with Mr Putin. They met at Mr Putin’s dacha outside Moscow.

(...)
 
If Assad falls it will be a victory for the jihadists,just as we saw in Libya.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
And NBC News is reporting that "Missile strikes against Syria could be launched “as early as Thursday,” senior U.S. officials said Tuesday". That will be a blunder - an understandable one from a weak president whose policies are all adrift - but a blunder all the same. There will be no winners, of any kind, in this mess: only losers and we, in the US led West, will lose more than we commit.

That is the Clinton plan.  And we know how well that worked in Afghanistan and Sudan in 1998.

Commonalities:

Non-military President.
No personal history of self-sacrifice.
Member of the Democratic Party.
Anti-War history.

Lacking moral authority to put American boots on the ground.

Opts to stand back a thousand miles and lob projectiles at the natives for a short while.

Result:

Upset natives looking for revenge against a despised, ineffectual aggressor.


The only long term solution is boots on the ground (aka Advance to Contact).  That course demands blood, treasure and commitment.  And we are short of all of the above.

Obama will "strike from afar".  Harper will supply a 6-Pack of CF-18s to fly from the SBAs in Cyprus and repeat Libya and Kosovo.  (Prediction).

Assad may die.  Nothing will change.
 
Kirkhill said:
Assad may die.  Nothing will change.

Well, not change for the better anyway.
Once the dust settles we might as well have gift wrapped this for the jihadists.  :(
 
I said it before up thread and I'll say it again; "This is NOT rpt NOT our problem" we, the west less France and, to much less extent, US had no hand in any of the internal problems that Syria is now grappling with. That One or BOTH sides have used chemical weapons of some kind doesn't matter.  There is no good guy/bad guy in this fight.

Both sides are equally bad.  Neither will think twice about using anything they can get their hands on. Undeniably there is a huge amount of suffering by an equally huge number of people caught in the middle, but it is their problem to sort out.

Sometimes doing nothing is the best there is.
 
The one thing about which everyone, including Presidents Assad and Obama, had best worry is that, according to Haaretz, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu says that "We are prepared for any scenario ... We are not part of the civil war in Syria, but if we identify any attempt to harm us we will respond, and respond forcefully." Unlike President Obama and NATO leaders, Prime Minister Netanyahu has the means and the will to decide this thing, one way or the other, should Israel's vital interests be threatened.
 
A few updates .....
Prime Minister Stephen Harper and U.S. President Barack Obama today discussed the alleged use of chemical weapons in Syria.

The White House says the two leaders spoke on the telephone about their grave concern over the reported use of the weapons by the Syrian regime against its own people.

The Obama administration said the two men pledged to continue to consult closely on potential responses by the international community.

Harper's office has yet to release information about the call.

The United Nations is investigating whether chemical weapons were dropped on a Damascus neighbourhood last week, while Washington says it has its own intelligence confirming the use ....
The Canadian Press

President Obama is considering a range of limited military actions against Syria that are designed to “deter and degrade” the ability of President Bashar al-Assad’s regime to launch chemical weapons, Pentagon officials said Tuesday.

Although no final decisions have been made, it is likely that the attacks would not be focused on chemical weapons storage sites, even though the Obama administration says the use of chemical weapons by the Syrian military is the trigger for the planned attack. They said any effort to target chemical sites risks an environmental and humanitarian disaster and could open up the sites to raids by militants.

Instead, the American assault would be aimed at military units thought to have carried out chemical attacks, the rockets and artillery that have launched the attacks and the headquarters overseeing the effort, the officials said.

(....)

An American official familiar with the military planning said that the initial target list has fewer than 50 sites, including air bases where Syria’s Russian-made attack helicopters are deployed. The list includes command and control locations as well as a variety of conventional military targets, official said. Like several other military officials contacted for this report, the official agreed to discuss planning options only on condition of anonymity.

Planners said that although suspected chemical weapons depots are seductive targets, they are too risky ....
New York Times

.... Even if the Pentagon knew the targets, knew that they contained biological or chemical weapons, knew which specific agents were hidden at each site, had the right vehicles and ordinance to penetrate air defenses and fortifications, determined the agents were sufficiently away from populations and in calm wind conditions, determined their use or insecurity was imminent and that there was a high-probability that all of those factors were correct -- well, it's not that simple.

"If you put on a bomb that busts a bunker with success, it's pretty sure that if it's a biological container I think it would be a high-probably that all biological agents would be killed by the blast -- or the heat," said Raymond A. Zilinskas, director of the Biological Weapons Nonproliferation Program at the Monterey Institute of International Studies.

"Chemical agents are different, they don't destroy that easily." ....
Foreign Policy blog

BREAKING: Hagel weighing possibility of launching Tomahawk Chuck Norris strike against #Syria.
The Duffle Blog twitter feed - had to throw that one in :D
 
Defenseone reports that "...the United States is no longer pursuing a United Nations or NATO stamp of approval to respond with force to the purported deployment of chemical weapons ... Instead, the U.S. has focused on building a rapid coalition consisting of the United Kingdom, France and several Arab states, by sharing intelligence evidence that U.S. officials say proves Bashir al Assad’s regime was responsible for last week’s chemical weapons attack."


This demonstrates that there is neither a legal nor a strategic basis for attacking Syria; but, the US president is facing a domestic political perception that he is a wimp, and, by extension his party, is full of wusses. This could be a real problem in the 2014 mid-term and 2016 elections so a few missiles will need to rain down on Damascus. The United States is starting to look a lot like Britain in the late 1940s.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
Defenseone reports that ....
That announcement's only glimer of silver-lining is that Canada isn't mentioned amongst the coalition. 

Short-sighted Completely blind politics at its finest, once again reaffirming that 'you can't fix stupid'  :not-again:
 
Very informative interview:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/world/july-dec13/syria2_08-26.html.

Action on Syria Might Send Message to Other Nations, Reinforce Taboo
 
Some highlights from CTV News' Mercedes Stephenson's Twitter feed:
In other news, the CDS is not in Ottawa right now... #Syria

Military sources tell me the military is contingency planning but has received no political direction regarding potential involvement #Syria

Military source tells me one of the key indicators may be Parl being recalled - q of whether Harper would commit troops w/o parl approval

This morning Barid's office said it is premature to consider recalling Parliament.

Available asset near the region is HMCS Toronto, a Cdn warship, but it would have to be pulled off current mission and reassigned.

In the case of Libya, Canada had assets near by and it still took a week to get geared up, so sources tell me could take longer.

That is relevant if a strike is imminent. May shape what kind of support Cda could offer if govt decides to contribute.

Military source tells me special forces are in a perpetual planning enviornment, it is part of what makes them so elite #syria

However again, there has been no political direction to prepare for a strike. Mil source tells me they're learning stuff from news too.
 
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