Tac Vest does not make the grade.

[Britney Spears]

I would have to disagree Infanteer.  I can think of numerous instances where I would not be wearing body armour.

Meh, fair enough, I'd just rather stand around in a shirt designed for armour instead of wearing armour over a shirt designed for standing around.

This is not to imply that standing around is ALL we do when not wearing armour (Wouldn't that be nice?), but armour should have been a  major consideration in the design of the shirt, more so than the carriage of extra FN C1 magazines. 

 

[devil39]

I would have to disagree Infanteer.   I can think of numerous instances where I would not be wearing body armour.

Meh, fair enough, I'd just rather stand around in a shirt designed for armour instead of wearing armour over a shirt designed for standing around.

This is not to imply that standing around is ALL we do when not wearing armour (Wouldn't that be nice?), but armour should have been a   major consideration in the design of the shirt, more so than the carriage of extra FN C1 magazines.  

Agreed.   Pockets on the upper arms is the way to go probably.   I never got around to moving the chest pockets like some guys did.   I generally only wore a flak jacket on insertion and extraction.  Really situationally dependent though.

 

[KevinB]

Take a look at the Crye Precision

They have taken the idea one step further

The shoulder/arm pockets and a un-encumbered tighter fitting chest.

Funny a buddy of mine (well back then have not seen in in over 10 years) proposed this sort of idea - collar and chest layout to NDHQ in 1993...


-I ordered a set of the pants and top to see how it works - look for feedback end Jan/Feb...

 

[a_majoor]

Although I may have missed it, I didn't see anyone mentioning the bandolier. Even with the 82 pattern webbing, it was considered normal practice to have 5 full mags and at least one bandolier of 100 rds per soldier (before adding the grenades, LAW and platoon ammo). I very rarely see bandoliers on ex, since there is not that much ammunition being issued, but it is part of the soldiers load.

During pre training for ROTO 13, 100% of the soldiers carried some sort of light pack, usually an IPE bag or similar pattern from the kit shop, for the extra socks, rations and ammo. BTW, I thread my KFS through the button on the belt loop. If I were to design a load bearing system, I would see a central "assault pack" for the ammunition, first aid pack and one ration, and three large "pockets" surrounding it for socks etc. Under contact, a quick release drops the "pockets" but the troop keeps the important stuff with him. (If anyone is skilled at designing this sort of kit, expand the idea into the rucksack...just say I sent you).

 

[KevinB]

There way a US powerpoint on Loadbearing in combat floating - I have it on my Edmonton computer but the one I am on in Ottawa (wait for a few days I can email it)

They had it broken down into three systems
one for combat
one for non combat but close to
marching order

Basically it pointed out the 031 soldier is OVERLOADED. 82lbs of light weight highspeed gear is still 82lbs...
I like the idea of "bugout bags" that are kept loaded with certain kit and only used if nec. 

I think given the current asymetrical threat the idea of  thebandolier is somewhat antiquated - you need your ammo right then and now
I think it is great to have extra ammo another three bandoliers - but that is to be considered admin ammo for the "long haul" and not to be used on the "consolidation" - which is really fricking hard if you are assualting a few houses (yeah you passed the book value explotation of your section but...)

The idea of immediate replenishment has come up time and time again within the US Army - it is funnt to see some of their SF guys goign off with virtually nothing these days - I have a buddies load out from the "raid that was not" in Haiti that they had all their BHD lesson learned factored in and they had the kitchen sink -- now they have kit for the DA and that is it...
Obviously there needs to be some middle ground.

What are we going to consider Mission essential?

Weapons & ammo
C8 or C9, pistol (?)
Mags? extra ammo
Grenades
DD's
Smoke
Paraflares

PPE
consisting of?

Pers Kit
what do we feel is the min we would carry?


Then

Can we make it lighter or more effective?

 

[Britney Spears]

<a href=http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/webbing.html>Completely crazy ideas</a>

A little archaic, but still worth a read.

I didn't see anyone mentioning the bandolier.

I presume you mean a bandoleer filled with magazines, and not with boxed rounds? Obviously the 5.56mm bandoleer we are issued with now is useless for such a purpose.

 

[KevinB]

Many of the US guys refer to three stages of dress.

1st Line
  Uniform gunbelt stuff

2nd Line
  LBE

3rd Line
  RUCK

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Many of the US guys refer to three stages of dress.

1st Line
  Uniform gunbelt stuff

2nd Line
  LBE

3rd Line
  RUCK

Didn't we at one time have

Drill Order
Fighting Order
Battle Order
Marching Order

??

 

[KevinB]

In theory we did

however we never decided what we wanted out of a stage of dress

 

[dw_1984]

I was taught there were 3

Battle Order (webbing minus buttpack)
Fighting Order (webbing w/ buttpack)
Marching Order (above + ruck)
Travel Order (above + duffel)

That being said, I've never used battle order.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I was taught there were 3

Battle Order (webbing minus buttpack)
Fighting Order (webbing w/ buttpack)
Marching Order (above + ruck)
Travel Order (above + duffel)

That being said, I've never used battle order.

Ummm....Isn't that four?

 

[Radop]

I was on Roto 0 in Afghanistan and switched to the new TV just before departing.  For my trade and most of the combat support and support trades this will do the job and much more.  The more important thing is that our leaders must realize that we cannot carry all the crap that we use to carry with us.  Most of the stuff we never used so take it out.  Tell me, who wears the rain pants that has been in more than one year? I personally think the vest is well designed but like the 82 patterned webbing, it will have growing pains while it gets into service.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Tell me, who wears the rain pants that has been in more than one year?

Rain pants are my favourite piece of kit, 17 years in and counting.  I told some of the privates at the Stampede the other year that I intend to get married in them.  For range exercises, they're great; beats lying down in early morning dew, rain or even snow and getting your combat trousers wet.  I never go to the field without them, and wear them regularly.  "Any idiot can be uncomfortable in the field...."

 

[48Highlander]

Well there's an exception to every rule   I haven't even seen my rain pants in about 6 years.  I can't think of too many people who bother bringing them out, let alone who actually wear them.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Well there's an exception to every rule   I haven't even seen my rain pants in about 6 years.  I can't think of too many people who bother bringing them out, let alone who actually wear them.

Call this a stupid question if you like, but....what do you wear when it's raining? ??? 

 

[devil39]

Call this a stupid question if you like, but....what do you wear when it's raining? ???  

Combat pants.   If it is below 5 degrees and approaching zero I may wear a light polypro.   Combat pants dry so quickly, why bother covering them up I have always thought.

Rain pants are great for a sedentary job when you are not generating any heat from the internal machine.   Nice on the range, but not the two way range.  

I own a stealth suit top, but I didn't buy the bottoms.   If i was going ot spend time in a wet OP, static, and laying around in the rain with little physical activity I might buy the bottoms.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Rain pants are great for a sedentary job when you are not generating any heat from the internal machine. 

I suspected that might be the answer.  ;D

Range Sentry Mike

 

[48Highlander]

on patrol, nothing.  well not literaly nothing, I still have my combats on  ;D  standing/sitting around, rain jacket.  The jacket has it's uses from time to time, but I've never found the pants to be worth the space they take up.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

on patrol, nothing.  well not literaly nothing, I still have my combats on  ;D  standing/sitting around, rain jacket.  The jacket has it's uses from time to time, but I've never found the pants to be worth the space they take up.

What?!?!, I thought the noise the rain pants make was supposed to be soothing while on patrol....

 

[Britney Spears]

It would kind of help if the rain pants (or jacket) were actually waterproof, and they're about as waterproof as your combat boots. That, and the fact that it doesn't breath, means that if you try to move around you will invariably get wetter than if you were wearing nothing at all.

Last time I checked, 3VP  recce plt troops are issued stealth suits(maybe devil39 can confirm?), so if you want to stretch the truth a bit,  its technically issued kit.  Then again, apparently noone in 3VP wears any issued kit at all, so I'm not sure how far you could get with that.