- Reaction score
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SAS must be itching for info.... good hunting. That's all I have to say about that.
FastEddy said:Very well. then please inform us how we should discribe them in the future.
HAND.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005310418,00.htmlNo.10 [Downing Street] Operation FIGHBACK - A £2 BILLION counter-terror operation swung into action within minutes of the first explosion. ...
http://www.hindu.com/2005/07/08/stories/2005070806071600.htmGLENEAGLES: The world's most powerful leaders united on Thursday to condemn the wave of bombings in London, saying they would not bow to terrorists ... British Prime Minister Tony Blair, summit host, insisted talks would continue despite what he described as `barbaric attacks'. ...
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1120859414904&DPL=IvsNDS%2f7ChAX&tacodalogin=yesBritons urged to help find attackers
LONDONâ â€Police have called on Britons to be their "eyes and ears" in a hunt for bombers who killed more than 50 people, some of whom remain buried in the wreckage of an unstable and vermin-infested subway tunnel. ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4660441.stmExtra troops for Afghan border
(photo caption: Pakistan already has 70,000 soldiers along the Afghan border)
Pakistan says it is deploying an additional 4,000 soldiers on its border with Afghanistan to prevent militants from moving across the frontier. ...
... Those who they came in contact with considered them uncivilized, and yet were fascinated by their strength, stamina, force of will, charisma, and versatility. They were respected by those they befriended, and feared by those who opposed them. Even within their own society, they fought amongst themselves, seeking supremacy of power and controllership of the lands they acquired.
In Northern Europe they became known as the Teutons, Norse, Goths, and Celts, and within those tribes arose many sub-tribes. Settling deep in the regions of Northern Europe, they were forgotten by the various civilizations to the South and East such as Greece, Assyria, Persia, and Egypt. It was not until the end of the Bronze age and the onset of the Iron Age that the cultures would re-emerge, clashing with those civilizations fronting the Mediterranean Sea; Greece, and Rome.
Reviled by the Greeks, and both respected and feared by the Romans, these people would time and again engage in battles against those civilizations. Those of Teutony proved to be indomitable, and even the ones conquered by Rome did not remain under Roman rule for long. Their fierce, warlike nature and coarse behaviors earned them the name "barbarians", meaning both "illiterates" and "wanderers". ...
Blasts occurred within seconds, police now say
Oakland Ross, staff reporter
LONDONâ â€Police and transit authorities have dramatically revised the chronology of the three blasts that hit trains on the London Underground on Thursday.
Initially, those explosions were thought to have occurred over a 26-minute span, from 8:51 until 9:17 in the morning.
Based on a closer examination of emergency reports and other data, officials now say the underground bombs went off within seconds of each other, at about 8:50 a.m.
"It was bang, bang, bang, very close together," Tim O'Toole, managing director of the London Underground, said yesterday.
The first explosion hit a train near Aldgate station, followed almost immediately by two more bombs, one at Edgware Rd. and a third at King's Cross.
A fourth explosion, which ripped the roof off a double-decker bus at Tavistock Square, killing 13, came nearly an hour later.
The death toll in the four bombings stands at 49, but is certain to rise.
The revised chronology of the blasts is important because it tends to bolster the likelihood that the bombs were detonated by electronic timing devices rather than being the work of suicide bombers.
"It might seem to move the probability toward a timing device," said Brian Paddick, Scotland Yard deputy assistant commissioner. "But we cannot rule out the possibility that people set these bombs off manually.
Last night, police evacuated large areas of downtown Birmingham, in what they described as "a precautionary measure" in response to an undisclosed security threat.
An estimated 20,000 people were ordered to leave the Broad St. entertainment district of Britain's second largest city, and motorists were prevented from entering the area.
The city's Chinatown area was also evacuated, involving about 10,000 people.
The alert, however, was not likely connected to the subway and bus bombings in London two days earlier, said Stuart Hyde, assistant chief constable of West Midlands Police.
"I want to make that pretty clear," he told a news conference.
The evacuation followed intelligence warning of a "substantial threat," Hyde said.
A controlled explosion â †designed to disarm any explosive device â †was carried out on a bus following a call from a member of the public, but officers concluded there was no explosive device.
London police also revealed yesterday that "high explosives" were used in the four blasts on Thursday, rather than "home-made" bombs, but they would not provide more specific information.
In all, about 700 people were wounded in the blasts, 65 of whom remain in hospital, 12 in critical condition. Approximately 25 other people are thought to be missing.
"You can have all the surveillance in the world, and you couldn't stop that happening," British Prime Minister Tony Blair said in a radio interview yesterday. He praised the "inner resilience" of Londoners for their calm response to last week's attacks.
The deadliest of Thursday's blasts, which took place far below King's Cross station on the Picadilly Line, has so far claimed 21 known dead, but that number is certain to climb because many bodies remain trapped in the wreckage there.
Ian Blair, commissioner of the London police, said yesterday he does not believe the final death toll in the four blasts will rise above 100.
Civic authorities in London announced yesterday that two minutes of silence will be observed at noon local time this Thursday, in honour of the victims of last week's bombings.
Yesterday, a second Islamic group sought to take responsibility for the deadly attacks on central London, but it was not clear whether the claim could be taken seriously.
Calling itself the Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigade, the organization claimed on its website that it caused the London bombings, but the group is known to have made bogus claims in the past. It previously sought to take credit for the power blackouts that hit parts of the United States and Canada two years ago.
On its website, the group threatens further terrorist actions against "infidel London."
Earlier, a group calling itself the Secret Organization of Al Qaeda Jihad in Europe claimed responsibility for the blasts.
Police investigators also revealed yesterday that they have so far been unable to identify any of the 49 bodies so far recovered from the wreckage left by the four explosions.
"It is a very harrowing task," Detective Superintendent Jim Dickie said, referring to the recovery of the corpses. "Most of the victims have suffered intensive trauma, and by that I mean there are body parts as well as torsos."
Police and rescue workers continued to work in appalling conditions roughly 30 metres below King's Cross station, trying to remove more bodies from the wreckage.
"This is going to be a very long process," said Trotter of the British Transit Police. "The conditions are extremely difficult."
He said there was no natural ventilation in the cramped and rat-infested tunnel, one of the deepest in the London Underground system. "It's a slow, methodical, meticulous process," said Trotter.
While recovery teams laboured underground yesterday, crowds of Londoners gathered under partly cloudy skies at the King's Cross station, where they filed past a makeshift shrine set up outside the station. Hundreds of floral offerings and handwritten tributes have been placed outside the station in honour of the bomb victims.
"In loving memory of you all," said one. "They will not beat us."
With files from Associated Press
Cdn Blackshirt said:Bottom Line: It's time for Canada's Muslim population to step up and in one voice say "This is not acceptable!"....
Arab editor slams 'charities' raising jihad cash
The Edmonton Journal
10 July 2005
LONDON -- The editor of the world's leading Arab newspaper has attacked Muslims in Britain for turning a blind eye to terrorist fundraising on their own doorstep. Writing in the wake of Thursday's bombings, Tariq Al-Humayd, the editor-in-chief of London-based Al-Sharq Al Awsat (The Middle East), claimed collections were frequently held in the capital for militant causes posing as charities.
"In London, we have seen, and are seeing, the money being collected in the streets ... and everyone is inciting jihad in our Arab countries and cursing the land of unbelief in which they live," he wrote. " The terror struck London, indiscriminately. ... For the sake of freedom of all of us, stop the ones who are attacking our freedom."
CFL said:British police said they arrested three people Sunday at London's Heathrow Airport under the country's anti-terrorism act, but would not link the suspects to last week's terror attacks.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050710.wbombings0709/BNStory/International/London police release arrested trio
Globe & Mail Online
Sunday, July 10, 2005 Updated at 7:54 PM EDT
Associated Press
London â †Three men arrested at Heathrow airport Sunday under anti-terrorist laws were released without charge, British police said.
Officials did not say if the arrest of the men â †all Britons â †was related to the hunt for the bombers who killed at least 49 people on London's subway and a bus Thursday.
. . .
A defiant Islam rises among young Britons
Thursday's attacks turn attention to a group alienated from British society.
By James Brandon | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor
LONDON â “ Thursday's coordinated terrorist attacks that killed at least 49 people have underscored competing forces within Britain's Muslim community: a minority that advocates violence against Western targets, and those who want to coexist peacefully with Britain's multifaith, multiethnic society.
Since the bombings, the media and Muslims have been at pains to explain that most of the country's 2 million Muslims are peaceful. "The Muslim community in Britain has a long history and is enormously diverse," says Anas al-Tikriti, a member of the Muslim Association of Britain.
But the attacks are turning attention to the increasing numbers of young British Muslims who are rejecting their parents' traditional culture in favor of a radical and expansionist Islam. This strikingly Western version of Islam combines an independence of thought with a contempt for established traditional scholarship and a theme of teenage rebellion.
"Getting involved in radical Islam is an emotional thing rather than a rational decision," says Abdul-Rahman al-Helbawi, a Muslim prayer leader. "And it's not a matter of intelligence or education - a lot of these radicals in Britain are very well-educated."
In Dalston market in north-east London on Thursday, "Abdullah," a Muslim watch-mender and evangelist, was in a pugnacious mood.
"We don't need to fight. We are taking over!" he said. "We are here to bring civilization to the West. England does not belong to the English people, it belongs to God."
Two days later in a prosperous West London cafe, Mr. Helbawi pondered the attacks. "It's not a surprise but I am still shocked," he said. "How can they do this? London is a city for all the world. This is not Islam."
Hours after the bombings, Helbawi logged onto an Internet chat room run by British Muslim extremists. "They were all congratulating each other on the attacks," he said. "It was crazy. They were talking about how they had won a great victory over the infidels, as if they had just come back from a battle."
Although so far, there is no evidence that British Muslims were involved in the bombs, there is little doubt that many British Muslims feel that Britain "deserved" the attacks for supporting the US invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.
"Because Muslims explain the conflicts in Iraq, Kashmir, and Israel through Islam, every Muslim feels involved," said Helbawi. "People watch television and see Palestinian women being hit and pushed around by Israeli soldiers, and get angry and feel that they have to do something."
But beyond anger, a sense of alienation often drives radical Islam. Many second- and third-generation immigrants find themselves cut off not only from their parents' cultures but also from a British one that includes alcohol and looser sexual mores.
"If you don't drink, it really cuts you off from English society," says Ummul Choudhury, a London-based Middle East analyst for the Gulf Centre for Strategic Studies. "The view of the older generation is also that you do not integrate. If you do, you are told you are betraying your culture and religion."
The resulting isolation makes it easier for young Muslims to develop a contempt for British society.
"There is also a lot of racism toward white British people," says Ms. Choudhury. "It's not really something that people want to talk about, but there are definitely some things that Muslims say between themselves that they would never say in front of white people."
For frustrated and isolated young Muslims, radical Islam is not difficult to find. Girls in particular are often prevented from going out at night and can be easily drawn into online Muslim communities where they come into contact with other disillusioned Muslims from across Europe.
One leading analyst of the Islamic diaspora even compares the lure of extremist Islam to 1950s teens listening to Elvis in an attempt to shock their parents. "The son of a Pentecostal preacher in Brixton was recruited by the radical Muslims," says Nadhim Shehadi, acting head of the Middle East program at Chatham House.
"This young man initially tried to upset his parents by becoming a rapper," says Shehadi. "But when his parents stopped objecting, he became a jihadi instead."
The antiestablishment nature of this new Islam and its apparent status as an alternative to capitalism and secularism is also winning converts among native Britons.
"People come to Islam from all walks of life. It's not just middle-class people but also electricians, judges, and taxi drivers," says Sara Joseph, the editor of "Emel," a lifestyle magazine for Muslim women, who converted to Islam at age 17. "The main catalyst for conversion is often going out with a Muslim, although the primary factor is usually a search for spirituality."
While the estimated 1,000 British Christians, atheists, and members of other faiths who convert to Islam every year are often attracted by Islam's clearly defined teachings, this minor trend is overshadowed by Muslims' highbirth and immigration rates, which tomany Muslims promises increased political and social influence in the future.
Indeed, taking advantage of Britain's rapidly expanding and increasingly Muslim population are new parties that aim to promote ethnic and religious agendas. One is Respect, a left-wing party founded by former Labour MP George Galloway, that aims to unite Muslims and socialists around opposition to American foreign policy and globalization.
Linked to the desire for increased political power are attempts by some radical Muslims to begin a process of Islamicizing British cities.
Last month, Muslim groups in Glasgow petitioned the City Council to ban an Italian restaurant from serving alcohol to diners seated at outside tables. Hospitals in Leicester considered banning Bibles from hospital wards to avoid offending Muslim patients. In Birmingham, a group called Muslims Against Advertising began a campaign of painting over billboards that they deemed offensive to Islam - targeting ads for Levi's jeans, perfume, and lingerie.
But these small campaigns are polarizing public opinion along ethnic and religious lines - and creating support for Britain's far-right groups, who present themselves as defenders of Britain's hard-won freedoms.
And this is why they did it
Amir Taheri
There is no way to reason with the terrorists, but the thinking behind their actions is perfectly clear
THE FIRST QUESTION that comes to mind is: what took them so long? The answer may be that in the past four years the British authorities have succeeded in preventing attacks on a number of occasions. David Blunkett, who was then Home Secretary, was often mocked for suggesting that this was the case.
It may take some time before the full identity of the attackers is established. But the ideology that motivates them, the networks that sustain them and the groups that finance them are all too well known.
*
Click here to find out more!
Moments after yesterday's attacks my telephone was buzzing with requests for interviews with one recurring question: but what do they want? That reminded me of Theo van Gogh, the Dutch film-maker, who was shot by an Islamist assassin on his way to work in Amsterdam last November. According to witnesses, Van Gogh begged for mercy and tried to reason with his assailant. â Å“Surely we can discuss this,â ? he kept saying as the shots kept coming. â Å“Let us talk it over.â ?
Van Gogh, who had angered Islamists with his documentary about the mistreatment of women in Islam, was reacting like BBC reporters did yesterday, assuming that the man who was killing him may have some reasonable demands which could be discussed in a calm, democratic atmosphere.
But sorry, old chaps, you are dealing with an enemy that does not want anything specific, and cannot be talked back into reason through anger management or round-table discussions. Or, rather, this enemy does want something specific: to take full control of your lives, dictate every single move you make round the clock and, if you dare resist, he will feel it his divine duty to kill you.
The ideological soil in which alQaeda, and the many groups using its brand name, grow was described by one of its original masterminds, the Pakistani Abul-Ala al-Maudoodi more than 40 years ago. It goes something like this: when God created mankind He made all their bodily needs and movements subject to inescapable biological rules but decided to leave their spiritual, social and political needs and movements largely subject to their will. Soon, however, it became clear that Man cannot run his affairs the way God wants. So God started sending prophets to warn man and try to goad him on to the right path. A total of 128,000 prophets were sent, including Moses and Jesus. They all failed. Finally, God sent Muhammad as the last of His prophets and the bearer of His ultimate message, Islam. With the advent of Islam all previous religions were â Å“abrogatedâ ? (mansukh), and their followers regarded as â Å“infidelâ ? (kuffar). The aim of all good Muslims, therefore, is to convert humanity to Islam, which regulates Man's spiritual, economic, political and social moves to the last detail.
But what if non-Muslims refuse to take the right path? Here answers diverge. Some believe that the answer is dialogue and argument until followers of the â Å“abrogated faithsâ ? recognise their error and agree to be saved by converting to Islam. This is the view of most of the imams preaching in the mosques in the West. But others, including Osama bin Laden, a disciple of al-Maudoodi, believe that the Western-dominated world is too mired in corruption to hear any argument, and must be shocked into conversion through spectacular ghazavat (raids) of the kind we saw in New York and Washington in 2001, in Madrid last year, and now in London.
That yesterday's attack was intended as a ghazava was confirmed in a statement by the Secret Organisation Group of al-Qaeda of Jihad Organisation in Europe, an Islamist group that claimed responsibility for yesterday's atrocity. It said â Å“We have fulfilled our promise and carried out our blessed military raid (ghazava) in Britain after our mujahideen exerted strenuous efforts over a long period of time to ensure the success of the raid.â ? Those who carry out these missions are the ghazis, the highest of all Islamic distinctions just below that of the shahid or martyr. A ghazi who also becomes a shahid will be doubly meritorious.
There are many Muslims who believe that the idea that all other faiths have been â Å“abrogatedâ ? and that the whole of mankind should be united under the banner of Islam must be dropped as a dangerous anachronism. But to the Islamist those Muslims who think like that are themselves regarded as lapsed, and deserving of death.
It is, of course, possible, as many in the West love to do, to ignore the strategic goal of the Islamists altogether and focus only on their tactical goals. These goals are well known and include driving the â Å“Cross-worshippersâ ? (Christian powers) out of the Muslim world, wiping Israel off the map of the Middle East, and replacing the governments of all Muslim countries with truly Islamic regimes like the one created by Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran and by the Taleban in Afghanistan.
How to achieve those objectives has been the subject of much debate in Islamist circles throughout the world, including in London, since 9/11. Bin Laden has consistently argued in favour of further ghazavat inside the West. He firmly believes that the West is too cowardly to fight back and, if terrorised in a big way, will do â Å“what it must doâ ?. That view was strengthened last year when al-Qaeda changed the Spanish Government with its deadly attack in Madrid. At the time bin Laden used his â Å“Madrid victoryâ ? to call on other European countries to distance themselves from the United States or face similar â Å“punishmentâ ?.
Bin Laden's view has been challenged by his supposed No 2, Ayman al-Zawahiri, who insists that the Islamists should first win the war inside several vulnerable Muslim countries, notably Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Iraq. Until yesterday it seemed that al-Zawahiri was winning the argument, especially by heating things up in Afghanistan and Iraq. Yesterday, the bin Laden doctrine struck back in London.
The author is an Iranian commentator on Middle Eastern affairs.
'London, Tel Aviv blasts connected'
German newspaper: Explosive material used by British terrorist who blew himself up on Tel Aviv beachfront in 2003 very likely the same as that used by terrorists who staged London attacks last week, Mossad tells Brits
By Roee Nahmias and Ronen Bodoni
TEL AVIV â “ The terror attack in London last week may be tied to a suicide bombing on Tel Aviv's beachfront in April 2003, German newspaper Bild am Sonntag reported Monday.
According to the paper, Mossad officials informed British security authorities that the explosive material used in the Tel Aviv attack on Mike's Place pub was apparently also utilized to stage the series of bombings in London on Thursday.
â Å“They reached us too late for us to do something about it,â ? a Mossad source is quoted as saying.
'Very powerful explosive'
According to the German report, the Mossad relayed an analysis of the explosives used in the Mike's Place attack to British security officials. Mossad sources are quoted as saying there is â Å“high likelihoodâ ? the explosives used in Tel Aviv were the same ones used in London.
However, the story makes it unclear whether the Mossad is involved in any way in the investigation into the London bombings.
After analyzing the explosive material used in the Mike's Place attack, the Mossad concluded it was produced in China and later smuggled into Britain, the paper reports. The explosives were apparently stashed by terrorists connected to al-Qaeda who were able to evade raids by British security forces.
According to the newspaper, Mossad Chief Meir Dagan said the explosive in question is very powerful, and â Å“much more lethal than plastic explosives and can be smuggled undetected due to its composition.
The Mossad was also able to determine the substance was developed and produced at the Chinese ZDF arms factory, located about 65 kilometers (about 40 miles) from Beijing, the paper reports.
3 people murdered at Mike's Place
The Mike's Place attack claimed the lives of three people, Yanai Weiss, 46, Ran Baron, 24, and Caroline Dominique Hess, 29. The bombing was carried out by two terrorists, Asif Mohammed Hanif and Omar Khan Sharif, who were recruited by Hamas in Britain.
The two managed to enter Israel using their British passports.
Hanif blew himself up at the pub, but Sharif failed to detonate his explosive belt and fled the scene. A few weeks later, his body was washed ashore in Tel Aviv.
The terrorists' relatives were detained in Britain in the wake of the attack on suspicion they knew of the plot and did nothing to prevent the attacks. The relatives' trial ended in July of last year, with the court ordering a retrial for Sharif's sister and brother.
Meanwhile, Sharif's wife was cleared of the charges against her.
POLICE have raided five locations in West Yorkshire, north-east England in connection with last week's bombings in London, the Metropolitan Police said today.
The raids are thought to be the first to be carried out in connection with last Thursday's coordinated bomb attacks in London.
They came as two more victims were identified by their families.
In statements released by police, the families of Jamie Gordon and Philip Stuart Russell said the two men were confirmed among the dead.
Police said today they were on the verge of identifying one person they believed was involved in the bombings.
Investigators have also found fingerprints on bomb materials from the blasts whch killed at least 52 people, according to separate reports.
Vital clue
A European official involved in the probe said progress had been made towards naming the person responsible for Thursday's bus blast, the UK Financial Times newspaper reported.
The bus explosion was one of four co-ordinated bombings in which at least 52 people were killed.
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The unnamed official told the paper: "I think we are going to see photographs of one or more suspects being posted within days."
Investigators have also found fingerprints on bomb materials from the attacks, US TV network NBC reported today.
It said at least four operatives were believed to have been involved.
The network cited a former senior US official in its report.
NBC said British intelligence had told US counterparts that investigators had picked up fingerprints from bomb materials, but they were unsure if they belonged to the bombers.
Law enforcement officials said investigators suspected the bombers congregated at King's Cross station, then set out to plant the devices, NBC reported.
Separately, The Times newspaper reported forensic pathologists were investigating two bodies found inside the bus to see whether one of them might have been the bomber.
"There are two bodies which have to be examined in great detail because they appear to have been holding the bomb or sitting on top of it," a "senior police source" said.
"One of those might turn out to be the bomber."
Online warning
Earlier, it was revealed al-Qaeda threatened to launch attacks in Europe in an internet warning posted five weeks before the London terrorist bombings that British intelligence services claimed to have no knowledge about.
But the Spanish secret service only forwarded the May 29 message to Britain's MI5 spy agency at the weekend - two days after the attacks.
The Spanish national intelligence centre, called CNI, sent a copy of the Arabic-language message - signed by "Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades - European division" - on Saturday to MI5, according to Spain's El Mundo newspaper.
The same group - named after an al-Qaeda leader who was killed in Afghanistan - claimed responsibility for the Madrid train bombings of March 11 last year, in which 191 people died, and twin bombings in Istanbul in November 2003 that killed 63 people.
The message, entitled "Letter to mujahedeen in Europe", states in part: "We now call on the mujahedeen around the world to launch the expected attack". Spanish intelligence officials believe this was a reference to the London attacks.
The revelation came as it emerged the severed head of a man had been found near the bus torn apart at Tavestock Place in the London bombings, strengthening suspicions that a suicide bomber was behind the blast. Suicide attacks in Israel have shown that a head is often the only remnant of a suicide bomber.
London's Daily Telegraph reported yesterday that the head found near the bus had almost certainly been blown out of the upper deck, where a rucksack-sized bomb is believed to have been planted on a seat.
One passenger who got off the bus just before the explosion had noticed a nervous young man behaving oddly on the bus and frequently dipping into a bag at his feet.
Investigators are convinced that three other terrorists escaped after leaving bombs on three Underground trains about 47 minutes before the bus blast.
IN OTHER DEVELOPMENTS:
* THE two first confirmed victims of the attacks have been formally named as Susan Levy, a 53-year-old mother of two from Hertfordshire, north of London, and Gladys Wundowa, 51, who worked for University College London as a cleaner. Levy is believed to have died in the deadliest blast, on a train travelling between King's Cross and Russell Square, while Wundowa was killed on the bus.
* BRITISH Prime Minister Tony Blair yesterday rejected Opposition calls for an inquiry into whether the bombings could have been prevented, saying it would disrupt the hunt for perpetrators.
* BRITAIN's terrorism threat status was yesterday raised to its highest level yet, as police believe the rush-hour bombers are alive and planning another attack.
CFL said:I just heard on the news that they suspect that the 4 bombers are dead and they arrested another.
Spr.Earl said:What I'm worried about is the announcement of "NEW LAWS" that Tony Blair is looking for!!!
The U.K. handled the IRA threat very well, but why the need new laws?
Smoke and Mirrors?
Loss of Liberty?
Before you all start I lived in the the U.K. in the 70's ,school kids,adverts on the telly advisning every one to look,for we all knew!!
This is over blown in imoi.
Religious hate law clears Commons
Government attempts to clamp down on expressions of religious hatred have cleared the Commons, but are set for a rocky ride in the House of Lords.
MPs gave the Racial and Religious Hatred Bill a third reading by 301 votes to 229, a majority of 72.
Shadow minister Dominic Grieve said the bill would not improve race relations.
But Minister Paul Goggins said: "I believe we need to take on the hate mongers, whether they are terrorists or whether they are extremists."
'Catastrophically flawed'
The bill would create a new offence of incitement to religious hatred and would apply to comments made in public or in the media, as well as through written material.
The plans, which have failed to make it through Parliament twice before, cover words or behaviour intended or likely to stir up religious hatred. Jews and Sikhs are already covered by race-hate laws.
It is a bill that's ill-conceived in its thinking, it will be dangerous in its execution and I'm confident we have not seen the last of it
Alistair Carmichael
Liberal Democrats
They will now undergo scrutiny in the House of Lords.
Home Office Minister Mr Goggins described the bill as small, tightly focused with "not much room for manoeuvre", although he accepted it was "not the whole answer".
"But there is a gap and we seek to close that gap through this legislation," he said.
But shadow attorney general Mr Grieve warned that the legislation remained "catastrophically flawed".
Satanists protected?
It would not improve race relations and would prevent the lawful expression of differences of view, he said.
"If the government really wants to tackle this issue, it is going to have to get away from the promises made to various people of some equal playing field, accept that religion and race are different, start to look at the real nature of the problem and try to come up with some constructive solutions."
He also argued that a failure to define religion in the bill meant sects, including Satanists, Scientologists and believers in female genital mutilation would be protected.
He said the measures could struggle to get through the House of Lords.
But Mr Goggins said it would be the job of the courts to define a religion.
"We've left it to the courts, that's right that we do that because over time a religion may change," he said.
'Ill-conceived'
Liberal Democrat spokesman Alistair Carmichael said he was "embarrassed" that elected representatives were sending a bill to the Lords "that is so bad at this stage" when so much time had been spent on it.
"It is a bill that's ill-conceived in its thinking, it will be dangerous in its execution and I'm confident we have not seen the last of it," he said.
But Labour ex-Cabinet minister Frank Dobson said it was incumbent on MPs to protect their constituents from those who incited fear and hatred.
An attempt by the Lib Dems, backed by the Tories, that would have outlawed religious hatred as a pretext for stirring up hatred against a racial group was defeated by 291 votes to 233, a government majority of 58.
Labour MP Ann Cryer, who backed the amendment, said she was concerned that restrictions contained in the bill would stifle debate.
Jokes
"I am simply not convinced that legislation which encourages further segregation, however well-intentioned, will provide the protection it aims to deliver," she said.
Last month a coalition of Tory and Lib Dem MPs failed to block the bill's second reading by 303 votes to 246, giving a government majority of 57.
Critics, including comic actor Rowan Atkinson, have argued that the measures will limit freedom of expression and stop them from telling religious jokes.
But Home Secretary Charles Clarke said the bill was not about stopping people from telling jokes about religion and would not curb artistic freedom.
He said it was "about behaviour that destroys individuals' lives and sets one community against each other".
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4673301.stm
Published: 2005/07/11 21:41:49 GMT
© BBC MMV
Tape links London attack to British suicide bombers
Matthew Fisher
CanWest News Service; with files from The Associated Press
July 13, 2005
LONDON - Britons were in a state of disbelief Tuesday after police revealed that four deadly terrorist attacks in London six days ago were carried out by suicide bombers with British citizenship.
A senior Scotland Yard officer said he saw a surveillance video of the suspects as they arrived together with knapsacks strapped to their backs at London's King's Cross Station Thursday morning before separating to carry out their missions.
Less than an hour later, explosions ripped through three packed trains on the London Underground and on the top floor of a double-decker bus. At least 52 people died and about 700 were injured.
"You would think they were all going on a hiking holiday when, in effect, they were Britain's first suicide bombers," Channel Four Television quoted the officer as saying late Tuesday.
On Tuesday, British authorities used special anti-terrorism search warrants to raid at least six houses in the northern English city of Leeds and nearby West Yorkshire communities. With the help of British army combat engineers, police carried out several controlled explosions, including one at a home that may have been used as a bomb-making factory.
Personal documents, including home addresses of three of the four bombers, had been discovered at the bomb sites and there was other forensic evidence pointing to their involvement, Deputy Assistant Commissioner Peter Clarke said at a news conference. But remains of only one of the bombers -- the one on the bus -- had been positively identified.
"We are trying to establish their whereabouts in the runup to the attacks," Clarke said.
Jeremy Shapiro, director of research at the centre on the U.S. and Europe at the Brookings Institution, said Europeans had been involved in suicide attacks in the Mideast, but he knew of no suicide bombings in western Europe previously.
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London police searching for blasts' mastermind: reports
By TERRY WEBER
Wednesday, July 13, 2005 Updated at 2:11 PM EDT
Globe and Mail Update.
British police are looking for a fifth suspect connected to last week's terrorist strikes on London's busy transit system and believe that person may have either made the bombs or co-ordinated the devastating attacks, according to reports Wednesday.
Both Sky News and the BBC reported that a fifth person is now being sought in connection with the strikes, which left at least 52 people dead.
Sky said detectives believe the suspect either made the bombs or masterminded what are believed to be Britain's first suicide strikes.
The news service said investigators feel it is unlikely that four men â “ identified earlier this week as the likely bombers â “ were acting alone. It said the fifth suspect could be hiding in London.
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The British news service Press Association, citing police sources, said police had identified the fourth suspect, but no name was reported.
Police have not formally identified any of the suspects in the attack.
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