Terrorist Deathwatch: Yasser Arafat

[I_am_John_Galt]

Reuters is reporting him on his way to his raisins, although the PLO says it ain't so: http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=226539

His record suggests HE might have been the greatest obstacle to peace in Israel/Palkestine ... without getting into the validity of that statement, does anyone care to comment on the prospects for peace with him out of the picture: is there real hope for peace or does the power vacuum mean that it is all going to hit the fan?

 

[winchable]

I think Arafat was to a certain extent simply a figurehead and could have easily been any other person.
I don't believe things will change much and probably continue in the same way they have now, despite what we might hear because I believe that people will try and put a good spin on his death by showing all of the "progress" that has been made since his passing.
Fact of the matter is both sides need to change their tune and regardless of whether Arafat is alive or not (though we can be certain Israel will be happy with his death) the feelings that motivated him will continue to exist.

 

[FormerEnlisted]

As long as they are free to practise their religion, I think that all these palestinians would in fact be much more content living in and working under Israeli rule.. they could then negotiate their point from a perspective that the Israeli's could deal with on a rational level.

 

[winchable]

I think that all these palestinians would in fact be much more content living in and working under Israeli rule..

Not ragging on your point of view here brother but I know alot of Palestinians and they won't even put "Israel" as their country of Birth, they simply put the city they were born in since they can't put "Palestine."

Not militant about it mind you but I believe they do have some right to refuse Israeli rule.

 

[FormerEnlisted]

Che- point taken, 'rule' was the wrong word. but what if they were in a situation that gave them equal voting rights and liberties as the Israeli's and had equal rights to run for office?

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

"Confusion" over his status: http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/11/04/arafat_health041104.html

From that article:

On Wednesday, his aides said he sent a message of congratulations to U.S. President George W. Bush for winning a second term, urging him to help bring peace to the Middle East.

When told by a reporter during his first news conference after winning re-election that Arafat had died, Bush responded: "My first reaction is God bless his soul. My second reaction is we will continue to work for a free Palestinian state that is at peace with Israel."

I find this interesting because:
1.  He (or at least his aides) is congratulating Bush(!!)
2.  Bush is saying nice stuff about him(!!!!!)
3.  Bush is confirming the "free Palestinian state" idea.

I wonder if he is/will trying to atone for the past (I'm thinking about Barak's offer of a state and the subsequent Second Intifada).

 

[winchable]

Che- point taken, 'rule' was the wrong word. but what if they were in a situation that gave them equal voting rights and liberties as the Israeli's and had equal rights to run for office?

It sounds nice, but if they had to call themselves Israeli and adopt the Israeli flag and put Israel on their passport and a plethora of other things, I doubt it would work.

I honestly think Arafat wanted peace as he got on, I'm not calling him a saint at all, but at the same time he had to be a bit of a hardass when it came to dealing with the Israelis in order to maintain a notion of Palestinian solidarity.
So we see him being thickheaded and refusing offers, alot still see him as not submitting to Israeli rule and being a proud Palestinian.

 

[bubba]

any idea who's going to replace him,or is it to early to speculate.

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

I honestly think Arafat wanted peace as he got on, I'm not calling him a saint at all, but at the same time he had to be a bit of a hardass when it came to dealing with the Israelis in order to maintain a notion of Palestinian solidarity.
So we see him being thickheaded and refusing offers, alot still see him as not submitting to Israeli rule and being a proud Palestinian.

His rhetoric did seem to soften a little in last couple of years, but actions speak louder than words ... I suspect he, and too many others, equate 'Palestinian pride' with anti-Semitism!

 

[winchable]

Well off of the top of my head I can think of 2 possible replacements.
There's Abu Mazen Mahmoud Abbas, who was Prime Minister for a while.
To many he's a moderate, although his PhD thesis was about links between the Zionist movements and the nazis.
He's never been very popular with Palestinians at all as he's seen as being willing to give into Israeli Demands. Although it is very interesting to note that he was also the brains behind Arafats charisma for many years.

Abu Alaa Ahmed Korei
Will be the interim leader after Arafats death without question.
Very wealthy compared with most Palestinians and is sort of seen as an aristocrat. He did however speak out against the corruption in the PLO and resigned because Arafat wouldn't yield to the Cabinet enough.

You're very right John, and I see it every day. The problem is it is too easily labeled anti-semitism and in many cases it walks the fine line between Being extremely critical of Israel and zionism, which has some right to it, and being outright anti-semite(Though technically palestinians are semite too) which is ignorant. I know Palestinians who dislike Israelis and Israeli government but sometimes get carried away and go off on an unfair tangent, that being said I know Palestinians who have married Israelis and Jews because they can draw the distinction between people and their government.

 

[1feral1]

There will not doubt be some kind of a power vacuum after he carks it, but what disgusts me is already some Israelis are partying in the streets celebraing Arafat's demise, and I compare this to radical muslims partying in the streets after 11 Sep. Talk about fueling the fire!

My prediction there will never be peace in the region (at least not in my lifetime our your children's). Hatred on both sides are as bad as each other, and its passed down from one generation to the next.

When will it end?

You tell me.

Wes

 

[Gunnerlove]

Lets conduct an experiment in democracy. Lets see how both countries will get along when each is run by an elected proportional government.

It's so crazy it might just work.


Or we could just run everyone in the middle east through sharps training.
 

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

what disgusts me is already some Israelis are partying in the streets celebraing Arafat's demise,

I haven't seen any reports of this ... where are you hearing it from?

 

[Slim]

SHARP training...Ahh, I don;t think somehow that that would work at all. (F#ck, it doesn't even work here...Except by fear maybe)

I think that Middle-East peace is a very fragile thing and there will always be those on both sides who don't want it and will do all they can to keep everyone inflamed.

Its a shame because both cultures have lots to offer the world...

Watch and shoot I guess...

Slim

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

I've never really kept up to speed on the Israel/Palestine conflict, and figured Id google it and get a little more in depth description of whats going on, but sadly, all I find is info so threaded with bias that I cant decifer whether its valid or not.

Does anyone have any links or such that could lead me in the right direction?

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

Does anyone have any links or such that could lead me in the right direction?

I find that wikipedia is pretty good for this kind of stuff (where articles are disputed, it says so, but I think that the biases generally offset).  Here's a couple of entries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_a_Palestinian_state
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab-Israeli_conflict

 

[Acorn]

It sounds nice, but if they had to call themselves Israeli and adopt the Israeli flag and put Israel on their passport and a plethora of other things, I doubt it would work.

The State of Israel can never allow it. If the Palestinian "right of return" is accepted, even if they become citizens of Israel, the state would cease to exisit. Palestinians far outnumber Israelis, so odds are, after the return, there would be one democratic election, then the extinction of the Jewish State.

Acorn

 

[winchable]

The State of Israel can never allow it. If the Palestinian "right of return" is accepted, even if they become citizens of Israel, the state would cease to exisit. Palestinians far outnumber Israelis, so odds are, after the return, there would be one democratic election, then the extinction of the Jewish State.

Agreed, absolutely bang on.
The question is, what does this mean for future prospects of peace or a democratic state of some kind in the region.

 

[Acorn]

There is only a two state solution. However, the problem is whether a viable Palestinian state can be created and Israeli security concerns can be satisfied. The issues look to be mutually exclusive.

Acorn

 

[winchable]

Doesn't it seem strange at all though that if the majority of the people living in the Area were to vote in a real democratic election than it would be different.
I don't know, I'm a firm believe in natural governments which represent the majority of the people.

I mean I don't want anyone to take me as being an anti-semite, quite the opposite I'm a member of the Jewish student society (The token Muslim as we like to say) and it's not because I'm being confrontational it's because I genuinely enjoy the Jewish community and wish we could all get along.
I just have to be critical of Israel, not because I'm a muslim but because I'm a human.