The Closing of CFB Chilliwack & No Regular Force Army Battalions in BC?!

[safeboy43]

Having taken BOTC in Chilliwack in the fall, followed by Infantry officer Training in Gagetown starting in January, the only factor that dictated how many tasks were performed in either location was what time the sun rose and set.  So, unless you are suggesting that Chilliwack has more hours of daylight, you've just offered this thread a red hering.  Thank you.

That was not my intention. What I was confirming is that BC has a very unique climate compared to the rest of Canada. Most particularly, the Lower Mainland. It is near the coast and the climate is moderated by the Pacific. Many activities can be done as the climate is very diverse. Make your way up a mountain an hour away, and the temperature is in the negatives (perfect for winter combat training). At another location, it's the exact opposite. This saves the CF money by not having to move members all over the country for different training.

However, if you wanted to cram as many training sessions in one day, the NWT would be a good place to start because of the constant sun in the spring and summer......

I hope this clears things up

 

[Michael OLeary]

That was not my intention. What I was confirming is that BC has a very unique climate compared to the rest of Canada. Most particularly, the Lower Mainland. It is near the coast and the climate is moderated by the Pacific. Many activities can be done as the climate is very diverse. Make your way up a mountain an hour away, and the temperature is in the negatives (perfect for winter combat training). At another location, it's the exact opposite. This saves the CF money by not having to move members all over the country for different training.

However, if you wanted to cram as many training sessions in one day, the NWT would be a good place to start because of the constant sun in the spring and summer......

I hope this clears things up

It clears up your intent, however it does nothing to advance any strategic reason for locating a unit in BC, which was the principal direction of the thread. 

 

[safeboy43]

It clears up your intent, however it does nothing to advance any strategic reason for locating a unit in BC, which was the principal direction of the thread. 

I'm sorry to beat a dead horse, but it does.

My answer, short and simple: Diverse Training Conditions

Cheers

 

[Michael OLeary]

You are beating a dead horse, and you are wrong.  "Diverse Training Conditions" does not present a decisive argument for the positioning of a unit anywhere unless that unit's primary role is absolutely dependent on those particular training opportunities.

Please review the definition(s) of strategic, you will see that training resources are seldom a critical factor.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/strategic

stra·te·gic
4. Military.
a. intended to render the enemy incapable of making war, as by the destruction of materials, factories, etc.: a strategic bombing mission.
b. essential to the conduct of a war: Copper is a strategic material.

stra·te·gic
  1. Of or relating to strategy.
  2.
        1. Important or essential in relation to a plan of action: a strategic withdrawal.
        2. Essential to the effective conduct of war: strategic materials.
        3. Highly important to an intended objective: The staff discussed strategic marketing factors.
  3. Intended to destroy the military potential of an enemy: strategic bombing.

strategic
1. relating to or concerned with strategy; "strategic weapon"; "the islands are of strategic importance"; "strategic considerations"
2. highly important to or an integral part of a strategy or plan of action especially in war; "a strategic chess move"; "strategic withdrawal"; "strategic bombing missions"

 

[safeboy43]

You are beating a dead horse, and you are wrong.  "Diverse Training Conditions" does not present a decisive argument for the positioning of a unit anywhere unless that unit's primary role is absolutely dependent on those particular training opportunities.

Please review the definition(s) of strategic, you will see that training resources are seldom a critical factor.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/strategic

If you think so, then consider the places you may have to conduct a raid (for example). They can occur in multiple places and in multiple countries. All the way from a cold, snowy environment to a city. If the CF can compact these two places into one, it makes for some extra dollars because less moving is required and the training is done faster. In the lower mainland (Chilliwack), this can be done.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Twitch....why not share your military background so people will know where you are coming from....

 

[safeboy43]

Twitch....why not share your military background so people will know where you are coming from....

I have no military background but I do know what makes a good training environment and is economically efficient. I have mentioned why it would be beneficial to have a Reg Force Battalion in BC but I see it has become more of a war. If you are unsure, please read my posts above.

Now that I have established my point clearly, I think it's best to keep the peace on this thread and let somebody else do the talking. I see no need to continue this as it will likely result in a lock down on this thread, which nobody wants. 

Thank You

 

[RyanNS]

....and has, by far, the mildest climate in Canada.

B.C. has the mildest climate in Canada? Actually if you're ranking this by province then Nova Scotia has the mildest climate. I think you were referring to the fact that the small coastal area in South Western B.C. has the mildest climate in Canada, which it does but not by a whole lot. There isn't really anywhere in Canada that is "mild". Also what benefits would this have to a reg force battalion being stationed there? Less diversified weather to train in?

 

[ArmyRick]

Hey twitch is there arid desert in BC? Right now thats the theater that the army is operating out of. A-stan. maybe we should post a battalion down in Fort Irwin, California due to its similar to  a-stan enviroment.

I have a better idea. Since you have no military expirience to speak of, why don't you lets us with plenty of military expirience run the show?

 

[orange.paint]

Wasnt the Rocky Mountain Rangers stood up just to defend the west coast during WW2?Along with the rangers?

 

[geo]

(Ft Bliss Texas)

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I have no military background but I do know what makes a good training environment and is economically efficient. I have mentioned why it would be beneficial to have a Reg Force Battalion in BC but I see it has become more of a war. If you are unsure, please read my posts above.

Now that I have established my point clearly, I think it's best to keep the peace on this thread and let somebody else do the talking. I see no need to continue this as it will likely result in a lock down on this thread, which nobody wants. 

Thank You

You do realize you are arguing against people that are in the CF and have been involved in the training of soldiers. Why do you feel you know better then they do?

Now if it wasn't for your first section that I bolded which comes across as rather arrogant and "all knowing" I would not bother have commenting. You are clearly outside of your lanes but admitting no military experience. I suggest a little more reading and less posting.

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

Back to the subject (if it's not totally lost already): skiing in the morning and sailing in the afternoon notwithstanding, there are some unique training opportunities (yes, ArmyRick there definitely ARE deserts in BC!):

CFB PETAWAWA, Ontario — After 16 grueling weeks of training, 125 men and women graduated as the first members of the Canadian Forces newest fighting force, the Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR).

...

The training highlight saw the new regiment deploy to the Kamloops, B.C., area to validate it previous weeks of training in unfamiliar and more challenging terrain. The area mirrors some of the current operational environments soldiers face today.

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/Land_Force/english/6_1_1.asp?FlashEnabled=0&id=1218&action=comment

Moreover, (as I tried to allude to earlier) a terrorist 'event' in Vancouver might prove very difficult to respond-to.  What if  a radiological 'dirty bomb' went off in one of the (rarely inspected) shipping containers in the Port?  Surely the overland routes would be blocked by civilians just trying to escape ....  something as simple as a (really) big weather system could cause massive slides on the North Shore and simultaneously close all of the mountain passes to the east ... what if a hostile force decided to seize and terrorize Vancouver for a day or two (or a week)?  It would not be terribly difficult for several dozen irregulars to blend-in with the local populace, then take the airports and downtown ... the CF would have to respond overland from the other side of several mountain ranges (hope it doesn't snow!).

Of course these 'scenarios' are far-fetched (some more than others), but the point is that in a emergency, Vancouver is the least-accessible big city in Canada as well as being the furthest-located from any regular army presence... it ain't right..  Perhaps even better than Chilliwack, a location further inland (such as Kamloops or Vernon) would offer locally-available training opportunities in desert, mountain & winter warfare while putting a Regular presence much closer to the Lower Mainland yet still geographically insulated from ground zero of the most likely disaster scenarios.

 

[safeboy43]

You do realize you are arguing against people that are in the CF and have been involved in the training of soldiers. Why do you feel you know better then they do?

Of course I realize that. However, military experience is not needed to tell what is most efficient (although it helps). After all, base locations are not stationed by Officers and Senior NCO's (who normally take care of the training). They are usually put where it suites the government. I have said it would be economically efficient to place a Battalion in BC because of it's diverse climate.

I respect every member of the CF and what they do for me every day, but I don't see what discussing Battalion locations has do do with challenging their experience in training soldiers.

Cheers

 

[Donut]

...I don't see what discussing Battalion locations has do do with challenging their experience in training soldiers.

Cheers

And there you have it.  You're way outside your lane on this one. 

Read more, post less.

DF

 

[Franko]

Of course I realize that. However, military experience is not needed to tell what is most efficient (although it helps). After all, base locations are not stationed by Officers and Senior NCO's (who normally take care of the training). They are usually put where it suites the government. I have said it would be economically efficient to place a Battalion in BC because of it's diverse climate.

I respect every member of the CF and what they do for me every day, but I don't see what discussing Battalion locations has do do with challenging their experience in training soldiers.

Cheers

Twitch,

You are completely off the range never mind your lane or arcs.

Keep this up and you'll be on the ramp.

The Army.ca Staff

 

[bwatch]

I don't think there is any. Most of the Militia training that was at Chilliwack now has to be done in Washington State at Fort Lewis. This now means a Border Crossing and planty of paper work. Transport is more costly, as well as meals and lodging.

 

[Donut]

Was it worth it?  To who? 

As to tng, you're out to lunch.  What tng has been moved to the states versus the existing, remaining, facilities in Chilliwack?

Bridging?  Yup, still done in the 'wac.  I know there's some restrictions on Cultis now, but no biggie.

Dems?  Slesse range still goes boom.

Rifle and Grenade?  Volkes range is still there.

Heavy Equipment?  All the veh are gone, but the OPSEE's still there, and 6 FES, 56(?) ESS still use it.

Our Arty NEVER Fired in Chilliwack.  It had some boobytrap houses, but no FART-FISH-MOUT-FIBUA site, unless you count the old corrections camps.

Please, BWAtch, fill me in;  I've only been tng there for 14 years.

How many years did YOU spend there?

DF

 

[ammo618]

ParaMedTech  +1 ;D

Couldn't have said it better myself........I spent a total of 9+ years there working/running the ammo section & then with the ASU...Cheers.

Jim

 

[Zoomie]

Don't forget the range/training area west of Williams Lake that is run out of ASU Chilliwack.  That training area has been and is still in use.

We're considering it for live para and night illumination exercises.