The Defence

[daftandbarmy]

Except they may have wanted those trenches for training....don't ask how I know. One backhoe did some work for us and a few Regulars Force guys were not so happy when they went to take up their defensive and found the trenches filled in. Whoops should have told us they wanted to use them...

No, they definitely wanted all the holes filled in.

I'm guessing they were also acting on some bad advice from senior Reservists, who got zero dirt on their boots during the FTX, who were pulling the 'I want to get to the showers first' card.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Backhoes can pull out riveting and pickets? Given that range control has to approve of any remediation, I can only imagine the over time hours any contractors with backhoes would game. If they can even get the backhoes to the defensives.

You be surprised at what a good operator can do. I seen then do amazing stuff in all sorts of places. I used to inspect them doing habitat restoration, which including pulling out stuff and placing stuff in areas with no roads.

 

[Kirkhill]

If light infantry is being equipped with MRZRs and ISVs why couldn't their pioneers be equipped with Bobcats?

https://www.bobcat.com/na/en/attachments/trencher

 

[OldSolduer]

Backhoes can pull out riveting and pickets? Given that range control has to approve of any remediation, I can only imagine the over time hours any contractors with backhoes would game. If they can even get the backhoes to the defensives.

Skid steers with tracks with attachments can do all that and probably more. Backhoes are a great thing too.

In the mid 80s a project was undertaken so the infantry would be equipped with a Unit Rapid Excavator - in essence a backhoe. It never came to fruition for the infantry but the engineers had some IIRC. If we had no engineer support we did it the old fashioned way - pick and shovel.

 

[Kirkhill]

Skid steers with tracks with attachments can do all that and probably more. Backhoes are a great thing too.

In the mid 80s a project was undertaken so the infantry would be equipped with a Unit Rapid Excavator - in essence a backhoe. It never came to fruition for the infantry but the engineers had some IIRC. If we had no engineer support we did it the old fashioned way - pick and shovel.

Have at 'er.

https://www.bobcat.com/na/en/attachments?page=3

 

[Kirkhill]

Bobcat weights - 2000 to 3000 kg kerb

https://www.bobcat.com/na/en/equipment/loaders/compact-track-loaders

MRZR weight 952 kg kerb

ISV weight 2300 kg kerb

Milverado weight 3000 kg kerb

 

[dapaterson]

MPEV - the Multi Purpose Engineer Vehicle. It was a series of bad compromises rolled together into a single orphan fleet.

 

[Kirkhill]

On the other hand - JCB's HMEE for the British and US Army look broadly similar.

Defence Products | JCB.com

Strong, powerful, productive and tailorable, the JCB Defence range is ready and willing to serve.

www.jcb.com

BESPOKE | Government & Defence | JCB.com

Made to order, our bespoke military JCB vehicles have been deployed in the toughest environments on operations around the world.

www.jcb.com

https://asc.army.mil/web/portfolio-item/cs-css-high-mobility-engineer-excavator-hmee-type-i-and-type-iii/

 

[KevinB]

If light infantry is being equipped with MRZRs and ISVs why couldn't their pioneers be equipped with Bobcats?

https://www.bobcat.com/na/en/attachments/trencher

View attachment 79968

Admittedly as much as I love tooling around in Bobcats, it’s not exactly a powerful machine, preparing positions it’s in its wheelhouse
I’d have an air and hydraulic system on a ISV type truck to run some tools for pioneers - but if you’re trying to move earth - nothing beats larger machines.
The Bobcat isn’t going to be able to dig very effectively, so you need either a trench cutter or a backhoe.
The Bobcats can move earth once it’s freed though, but I’m not sure the juice if worth the squeeze for them.

 

[Kirkhill]

Admittedly as much as I love tooling around in Bobcats, it’s not exactly a powerful machine, preparing positions it’s in its wheelhouse
I’d have an air and hydraulic system on a ISV type truck to run some tools for pioneers - but if you’re trying to move earth - nothing beats larger machines.
The Bobcat isn’t going to be able to dig very effectively, so you need either a trench cutter or a backhoe.
The Bobcats can move earth once it’s freed though, but I’m not sure the juice if worth the squeeze for them.

From my point of view it is a mobile power pack with a large tool box of attachments. Some of them dig holes faster than a guy with a shovel.

 

[KevinB]

From my point of view it is a mobile power pack with a large tool box of attachments. Some of them dig holes faster than a guy with a shovel.

I’m not disagreeing, but I think one may get more bang for one’s buck with a larger system.
Having an air/hydraulic jackhammer and shovels run off a ISV - and a dedicated Trench Cutter and ‘light’ Dozer to me is a more effective method than the Bobcat.

 

[Kirkhill]

I’m not disagreeing, but I think one may get more bang for one’s buck with a larger system.
Having an air/hydraulic jackhammer and shovels run off a ISV - and a dedicated Trench Cutter and ‘light’ Dozer to me is a more effective method than the Bobcat.

It is true that the bigger you go the more dirt you can move. But isn't the light world supposed to be about getting where the heavy stuff can't?
Can an ISV tow a light dozer? Can an ISV manouevre on a muddy field?

 

[KevinB]

It is true that the bigger you go the more dirt you can move. But isn't the light world supposed to be about getting where the heavy stuff can't?
Can an ISV tow a light dozer? Can an ISV manouevre on a muddy field?

Light Infantry is often supported by non light enablers.
My point is adding a Bobcat is probably just taking up space for 99% of the tasks.

 

[Kirkhill]

Light Infantry is often supported by non light enablers.
My point is adding a Bobcat is probably just taking up space for 99% of the tasks.

You're probably right. Pick and shovel take up less space.

 

[KevinB]

Which isn’t to say I don’t think this isn’t a role for some light engineering systems.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I’m not disagreeing, but I think one may get more bang for one’s buck with a larger system.
Having an air/hydraulic jackhammer and shovels run off a ISV - and a dedicated Trench Cutter and ‘light’ Dozer to me is a more effective method than the Bobcat.

Remember those UNIMOGs we had in 4 CMBG with backhoes and dozer blades for the pioneer platoons?

 

[McG]

Which isn’t to say I don’t think this isn’t a role for some light engineering systems.

Light Engineering in Canada is just Engineers playing as Pioneers. We won’t invest in the kit required for proper light engineering, and it would not be sustainable with our current insistence on sprinkling a light forces in little packers for every brigade.

 

[KevinB]

Remember those UNIMOGs we had in 4 CMBG with backhoes and dozer blades for the pioneer platoons?

Only in pictures.

 

[McG]

Was it the US Army’s Small Emplacement Excavator?

 

[KevinB]

Light Engineering in Canada is just Engineers playing as Pioneers. We won’t invest in the kit required for proper light engineering, and it would not be sustainable with our current insistence on sprinkling a light forces in little packers for every brigade.

Which still makes me cry that the CA can’t have a rational reorganization to align to a true Light Bde construct.