The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[my72jeep]

It looks like their allies have gone away. PolySeSouvient, Wendy Cukier, and the lot were really pissed when he buckled. They seem to have gone away dejected, I haven't heard a peep from them. Pretty sure Cukier lost a lot of her liberal grants also. I'm not losing sleep over it.

Like mold, Wendy has a bad habit coming back when you least expect it

 

[Halifax Tar]

Not in the GTA, LMD or QC. Gun control is a tipping point issue in those areas. Those who opposed C-71 and C-21 wouldn't have voted red in any case. QC has always been anti-handgun and is the centre of gravity for gun control movements in Canada.

Traditionally you are correct. But I think that's changing.

 

[ArmyRick]

Traditionally you are correct. But I think that's changing.

It is. I have a lot of friends in the Brampton and Mississauga (where I spent my teen years) area and they have told me the general feeling has been more control does nothing to stop gun crimes, many of these people have known this. BUT, always a but, most of them are not hunters, sport shooters, gun collectors so they have for the most part not given a rats arse about the LPC gun law charade.

However these urban folks DO give a damn about affordability and thus that is what turns them against the LPC.

 

[Haggis]

Traditionally you are correct. But I think that's changing.

I live in ON but work in QC and many of my co-workers live in QC, mostly Monteregie and and Montreal. Anti-gun sentiment is still very high in those areas and the QC CFO has made QC the most difficult place in Canada to legally own or use handguns.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Not in the GTA, LMD or QC. Gun control is a tipping point issue in those areas. Those who opposed C-71 and C-21 wouldn't have voted red in any case. QC has always been anti-handgun and is the centre of gravity for gun control movements in Canada.


Really? Poly, Cukier's CFGC and Docs Against Guns are still very much alive and active, especially on X and Instagram.

EDIT: Interestingly, there are two Polysesouvient pages on FB. One anti-gun and one pro-gun.

I don't utilize either one of those platforms so I likely missed it.

 

[KevinB]

Ignorance = Fear.

 

[Aper]

I live in ON but work in QC and many of my co-workers live in QC, mostly Monteregie and and Montreal. Anti-gun sentiment is still very high in those areas and the QC CFO has made QC the most difficult place in Canada to legally own or use handguns.

The problem isn't a anti-gun sentiment; it's because we never had a history of owning guns like in the US and Quebecers are the worse in being Patriotic towards Canada and the military in general.

People are still stuck in 1989 with the Polytechnic incident, and everything guns related now is like worshiping the devil because every gun owners here are potential psychos that will repeat history.

 

[OldSolduer]

Ignorance = Fear.

Fear leads to Anger
Anger leads to Hate
Hate leads to much suffering

Master Yoda enters the chat

 

[Eaglelord17]

The problem isn't a anti-gun sentiment; it's because we never had a history of owning guns like in the US and Quebecers are the worse in being Patriotic towards Canada and the military in general.

People are still stuck in 1989 with the Polytechnic incident, and everything guns related now is like worshiping the devil because every gun owners here are potential psychos that will repeat history.

Actually it is more Canadian to own firearms than the US. The NRA was even set up by Canadians.

Early Canadians 1800s were gun crazy, which makes sense considering it was a necessity for the rural life of the time (both hunting and defensive usage). It’s only with the urbanization of the last 60-70 years that really started to change. We could buy full autos with less restrictions than the US up to 1978, where most their restrictions started in the 60s.

Even until the last round of gun laws there was a bunch of stuff we could buy easier than the states (such as anti-tank guns which in the states were considered destructive devices).

There is still a exceptionally strong gun culture in Canada, we likely have between .5-1 firearm per person in this country. Most other countries don’t even come close.

That being said, it’s a easy community to demonize for votes as the rural areas mean less and less for votes as time progresses, the urban areas aren’t exactly awash in firearms owners.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Actually it is more Canadian to own firearms than the US. The NRA was even set up by Canadians.

Early Canadians 1800s were gun crazy, which makes sense considering it was a necessity for the rural life of the time (both hunting and defensive usage). It’s only with the urbanization of the last 60-70 years that really started to change. We could buy full autos with less restrictions than the US up to 1978, where most their restrictions started in the 60s.

Even until the last round of gun laws there was a bunch of stuff we could buy easier than the states (such as anti-tank guns which in the states were considered destructive devices).

There is still a exceptionally strong gun culture in Canada, we likely have between .5-1 firearm per person in this country. Most other countries don’t even come close.

That being said, it’s a easy community to demonize for votes as the rural areas mean less and less for votes as time progresses, the urban areas aren’t exactly awash in firearms owners.

Well said. I know every house in my family had a gun rack and a selection of rifles and shotguns while I was growing up. All out in plain sight. It wasnt until the registration was brought in in the 90s that I started to see that fade away and some of the older men got out of it all together.

My father in law worked at Sears here in Halifax as a young man, and he remembers racks and racks of cheap Lee Enfield's for sale, and walking through the city to catch the county bus to go hunt with his friends, all carrying rifles. No on batted an eye. He also remembers when the Bedford Rifle Range would open every year for rifle sighting and the proceeds would go to charity.

 

[KevinB]

The problem isn't a anti-gun sentiment; it's because we never had a history of owning guns like in the US and Quebecers are the worse in being Patriotic towards Canada and the military in general.

People are still stuck in 1989 with the Polytechnic incident, and everything guns related now is like worshiping the devil because every gun owners here are potential psychos that will repeat history.

As like what @Eaglelord17 said, Canada used to have a robust gun culture, and firearms rights where enshrined in the BNA Act.

Guess what evaporated when the “Constitution” was “repatriated”.

Canada is the perfect example of the boiling frog, and serves as a reminder down here what the anti-gun agenda really is. It isn’t about Gun Control, it’s about gun elimination.

 

[Haggis]

As like what @Eaglelord17 said, Canada used to have a robust gun culture, and firearms rights where enshrined in the BNA Act.

Guess what evaporated when the “Constitution” was “repatriated”.

Not entirely accurate. Regulation of firearms began as early as 1892.

Canada is the perfect example of the boiling frog, and serves as a reminder down here what the anti-gun agenda really is. It isn’t about Gun Control, it’s about gun elimination.

Up here, it's about votes.

 

[suffolkowner]

Not entirely accurate. Regulation of firearms began as early as 1892.

Up here, it's about votes.

there might have been regulations but I dont know how many of us knew about them. Our rifles just sat in a rack inside the front door with the ammo underneath them, half of them were probably loaded half the time especially the 22. No license no registration that I knew of

 

[Eaglelord17]

Not entirely accurate. Regulation of firearms began as early as 1892.

Up here, it's about votes.

There is a bit in there which is inaccurate. For example when its talking about the Firearms Acquisition Certificates in the 70s you could still own and possess firearms you had before FACs came to existence. The way it is written makes it seem as though it basically was a PAL. It was only a requirement to have one if you were acquiring a new firearm after that point. You could also allow those certs to expire and your firearms were still valid to own.

Still pretty good summary of the changes though.

 

[KevinB]

Not entirely accurate. Regulation of firearms began as early as 1892.

Like @Eaglelord17 pointed out it’s not 100% accurate.
However I don’t think the 1892 changes are terribly significant, as from everything I’ve read about it, it was more an add on charge if you did something criminal and had a pistol with you. Folks were not accosted for simply having them with them in most areas.

A good book on the subject.

BROWN, R. B. (2012). Arming and Disarming: A History of Gun Control in Canada. University of Toronto Press.

It’s also got some very interesting aspects how the Canadian government at times attempted to restrict Catholics and Indians access to firearms over the years.

Up here, it's about votes.

Isn’t it always.

 

[captloadie]

It is a chicken and egg problem. Did the increasing regulation change gun culture, or did changing gun culture bring in the need for new regulations.

Even reading through this page of posts, Canadian gun culture seemed to be based historically on the fact that firearms were tools, not toys. And by this I mean that they were bought and used for hunting or protection (primarily from wildlife). Other than the wealthy, not many people bought firearms for the purpose of collecting them, or modifying them, or just to say they have the newest, bestest, most powerful (ie toys).

 

[Halifax Tar]

It is a chicken and egg problem. Did the increasing regulation change gun culture, or did changing gun culture bring in the need for new regulations.

Even reading through this page of posts, Canadian gun culture seemed to be based historically on the fact that firearms were tools, not toys. And by this I mean that they were bought and used for hunting or protection (primarily from wildlife). Other than the wealthy, not many people bought firearms for the purpose of collecting them, or modifying them, or just to say they have the newest, bestest, most powerful (ie toys).

Mmmmm I dunno. You have some pretty substantial 'collectors' on this forum and I wouldn't say they are wealthy. Most of them have built these collections over a lifetime.

 

[captloadie]

So

Mmmmm I dunno. You have some pretty substantial 'collectors' on this forum and I wouldn't they are wealthy. Most of them have built these collections over a lifetime.

Sorry, I was implying that historically that was the case, before the industry has become so regulated. Also, I know it is overly simplifying to define something as either only a tool, or a toy, but that's how I see things. If you buy a side-by-side to work your farm, its a tool. If you buy it to run the trails, its a toy. And the regulations governing the use are different.

 

[Halifax Tar]

So

Sorry, I was implying that historically that was the case, before the industry has become so regulated. Also, I know it is overly simplifying to define something as either only a tool, or a toy, but that's how I see things. If you buy a side-by-side to work your farm, its a tool. If you buy it to run the trails, its a toy. And the regulations governing the use are different.

All I was saying is in my experience firearms collectors aren't mostly a wealthy lot. I would say middle class. Go to any local gun show, you will meet these folks.

What if the farmer uses the SxS for work on the farm and then takes the missus out for a rip in the evenings, for fun, in the same SxS ?

 

[Haggis]

All I was saying is in my experience firearms collectors aren't mostly a wealthy lot. I would say middle class. Go to any local gun show, you will meet these folks.

Firearms ownership is like owning horses. Once you start, you will no longer have disposable income.

What if the farmer uses the SxS for work on the farm and then takes the missus out for a rip in the evenings, for fun, in the same SxS ?

Different rules could apply.

On the farm, no insurance or registration required. No helmets or seat belts. No signal or driving lights. Go as fast as you want wherever you want.

For trail use off your property you'd need licence and registration, insurance, a trail pass and the requirement to wear helmets and seat belts as well as adhere to the highway laws while transiting to and from the trails would be in play.