The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[Haggis]

It appears that Bill C-21 removes the possibility of exporting a firearm prohibited by the May OIC. The only method of disposal is to surrender it for destruction and accept the compensation offered.

 

[MilEME09]

It appears that Bill C-21 removes the possibility of exporting a firearm prohibited by the May OIC. The only method of disposal is to surrender it for destruction and accept the compensation offered.

Good luck with retailers accepting that, this bill is setting it self up for court challages, assuming the ndp doesn't grow a spine and vote it down.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Good luck with retailers accepting that, this bill is setting it self up for court challages, assuming the ndp doesn't grow a spine and vote it down.

Your one hell of an optimist

 

[MilEME09]

Your one hell of an optimist

It's been a strange year, anything is possible

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I hope you are right

 

[Haggis]

I think the first amendment the NDP and Bloc will ask for is a national handgun ban. BC's NDP government would like that, as Vancouver is already drafting the required by-laws and the Bloc would be seen as supporting Montréal's mayor.

 

[Ostrozac]

I think the first amendment the NDP and Bloc will ask for is a national handgun ban. BC's NDP government would like that, as Vancouver is already drafting the required by-laws and the Bloc would be seen as supporting Montréal's mayor.

That‘s probably not in the cards. They’ve even backed away from the previously planned ban on AR15/M14/Mini14 et al, replacing it with an optional buyback and new category of grandfathered prohibs (to go with all the grandfathered FN FAL, etc that are still in people’s homes, not hurting anyone). If they didn’t even have the political capital to actually take away AR15s, they aren’t going to push for handguns. Not at this stage.

 

[Weinie]

That‘s probably not in the cards. They’ve even backed away from the previously planned ban on AR15/M14/Mini14 et al, replacing it with an optional buyback and new category of grandfathered prohibs (to go with all the grandfathered FN FAL, etc that are still in people’s homes, not hurting anyone). If they didn’t even have the political capital to actually take away AR15s, they aren’t going to push for handguns. Not at this stage.

Don't discount the power of local lobbies, especially now that they may be "empowered." Some people have waaaaaay too much time on their hands, and are seeking a "woke" cause. The ambiguity that this bill creates is troubling.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I expect pushback on the municipal handgun ban. Jurisdiction of municipalities belongs to the provinces. The feds cannot just bypass the premiers and ignore their authority.

 

[Haggis]

I expect pushback on the municipal handgun ban. Jurisdiction of municipalities belongs to the provinces. The feds cannot just bypass the premiers and ignore their authority.

Well, they didn't really bypass the provinces. Municipalities have always had the power to make by-laws. The Liberals are simply making federal criminal penalties avaialbe for municipaliites to use instead of fines.

 

[Ostrozac]

I expect pushback on the municipal handgun ban. Jurisdiction of municipalities belongs to the provinces. The feds cannot just bypass the premiers and ignore their authority.

This is a key point. The only thing that might make the Bloc vote against more gun control is the thought of giving power to federalist Montreal at the expense of the provincial government in Quebec City.

 

[Haggis]

The Bloc head has stated his party will not support Bill C-21 because the buyback is not mandatory.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Don't discount the power of local lobbies, especially now that they may be "empowered." Some people have waaaaaay too much time on their hands, and are seeking a "woke" cause. The ambiguity that this bill creates is troubling.

Exactly my fear, with municipal leader voted in by a tiny percentage of the people

 

[Gunnar]

I have heard of suggested amendments to this bill that have impact on airsoft, pellet, paintball and BB guns as well. As the Canada.ca site is usually out of date, I have not been able to find a more recent source of this information. Changes to these kinds of gun would likely have an impact on a number of programs currently offered to youth, and I an curious to know their proposed application.

 

[Brad Sallows]

A mandatory buyback of something that was never sold by the to-be-buyer in the first place is expropriation. People should start calling it what it is.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I have heard of suggested amendments to this bill that have impact on airsoft, pellet, paintball and BB guns as well. As the Canada.ca site is usually out of date, I have not been able to find a more recent source of this information. Changes to these kinds of gun would likely have an impact on a number of programs currently offered to youth, and I an curious to know their proposed application.

Could end our popular range program at Navy League Cadets, but the Libs will be fine with that, they have us replace it with recycling resorting class.

 

[Haggis]

Remember, this is a bill only. It had first reading yesterday. The Bloc have already stood against it. The costs are unknown. The impact on businesses, which is believed to be significant, has yet to be determined. And we are coming up to an expected early summer election.

 

[brihard]

I expect pushback on the municipal handgun ban. Jurisdiction of municipalities belongs to the provinces. The feds cannot just bypass the premiers and ignore their authority.

What authority, specifically? While constitutionally the provinces have the power over property and civil rights, the feds have constitutional authority over ‘peace, order, and good government’. There’s historical precedent (the Canada Temperance Act, and jurisprudence arising therefrom) for the feds pushing a prohibition power directly to municipalities, backed by federal law so long as they can articulate that the matter falls at least substantially under that head of constitutional power. I suspect the AG’s constitutional lawyers will have done their homework on this.

Now, that’s not to say that the proposed authority for municipalities objectively makes sense as a tool to fight gun crime. I don’t personally believe it does. It appears to be within Parliament’s legitimate constitutional powers, though.

They only need to get one other party on board... Which deal will be made?

 

[lenaitch]

From Saskatchewan's Municipalities Act, Section 8, new sub section added in 2020:

(1.1) Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act or any other Act or law, a municipality has no power to pass any new bylaws respecting firearms, unless otherwise provided for by regulation.

I can really see Alberta, Ontario and Quebec (just cuz) doing similar.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out in light of the modern Constitution.

 

[brihard]

From Saskatchewan's Municipalities Act, Section 8, new sub section added in 2020:

(1.1) Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act or any other Act or law, a municipality has no power to pass any new bylaws respecting firearms, unless otherwise provided for by regulation.

I can really see Alberta, Ontario and Quebec (just cuz) doing similar.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out in light of the modern Constitution.

The modern constitution didn’t fundamentally change any of the heads of power under Ss. 91 and 92... it basically imported them wholesale from prioriterations.

Municipalities get all of their power to pass bylaws from the provincial legislation that creates and empowers municipalities. I don’t know if the fight will happen in Manitoba, but if, say, Ontario were to pass such a restriction, then likely the matter would get pushed through court by impacted municipalities. I’ll be curious to see how this plays out.