The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[Halifax Tar]

Two people are out hunting together with identical SKSs. One is a first nations member, the other a rural Canadian farmer. In the eyes of Polysesuovient, one hunter is carrying a hunting rifle, the other an assault rifle.

Now, those same two people are hunting but they only have one rifle between them. Does it change classifications depending on who is holding it?

You cannot debate with the Polysesuovient folks.

They have one aim and goal and it's to remove your legally obtained and operated property. And their justification is 'because'.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Unique or unusual firearms (primarily 9mm SMGs)

Quite the catch all. The bracketed portion can be completely ignored, it carries no weight and is ambiguous.

Rebarrel a Lee Enfield to .300 Weatherby and you’ve just made a unique firearm.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Two people are out hunting together with identical SKSs. One is a first nations member, the other a rural Canadian farmer. In the eyes of Polysesuovient, one hunter is carrying a hunting rifle, the other an assault rifle.

Now, those same two people are hunting but they only have one rifle between them. Does it change classifications depending on who is holding it?

Doesn’t matter. The RCMP have the liberals permission to usurp the MPs parliamentary duty for classification. We can already see that they will prohibit whatever they want. They can change classifications overnight.

It shouldn't be long before the FN join together and challenge it. Either the government tells them to pound salt, causing more native angst. Or the government continues making two classes of citizens, taking them from non natives and leaving them with aboriginals.

Any bets on the route the liberals will take?

 

[Haggis]

Doesn’t matter. The RCMP have the liberals permission to usurp the MPs parliamentary duty for classification. We can already see that they will prohibit whatever they want. They can change classifications overnight.

It shouldn't be long before the FN join together and challenge it. Either the government tells them to pound salt, causing more native angst. Or the government continues making two classes of citizens, taking them from non natives and leaving them with aboriginals.

Any bets on the route the liberals will take?

QC has always had an adversarial relationship with FN. If QC wants the SKS banned, and that ban may translate into a political advantage for the LPC, they will ban the SKS outright.

 

[Halifax Tar]

QC has always had an adversarial relationship with FN. If QC wants the SKS banned, and that ban may translate into a political advantage for the LPC, they will ban the SKS outright.

The more I see this being pushed by one province, the more I think firearms should be delegated down to the provinces.

I know it will never happen as its a punishment lever for the CPC, but a guy can dream.

 

[Haggis]

The more I see this being pushed by one province, the more I think firearms should be delegated down to the provinces.

QC is the center of gravity for the anti-gun movement in Canada, more so now that Nathalie Provost got herself elected as a Liberal. You don't hear much these days from the Toronto based Coalition for Gun Control or the Doctors for Protection From Guns. The QC CFO is also more hardline towards ranges and clubs that other provinces.

Despite what AB and SK are trying to do to protect legitimate firearms owners, the feds will never surrender control of firearms regulation to the provinces and AB and SK may be setting their citizens up for criminal liability should they continue what they are doing.

 

[Halifax Tar]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1998210901711950159

Good on Charlottetown and the Yukon!

 

[Jarnhamar]

Pragmatically speaking, all that will happen is the Liberals will kick the gun confiscation down the road for 4 more years and not offer gun owners any compensation for their firearms. Gun owners won't be able to use their firearms and will be out any meager compensation they could have hoped to receive.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Pragmatically speaking, all that will happen is the Liberals will kick the gun confiscation down the road for 4 more years and not offer gun owners any compensation for their firearms. Gun owners won't be able to use their firearms and will be out any meager compensation they could have hoped to receive.

If they are smart they will 12.x the firearms, grant all current owners the right to own said license upon registration of the firearm (‘Restricted’ ones already on record, everything else needed to be registered) and have the same rules as all the other 12.x firearms.

This saves them having to confiscate, prevents sales of said firearms, allows them to actually know most the people who own them (with clear jail time for anyone caught without it registered), and prevents a expensive and time consuming confiscation plan with a high risk of failure.

 

[Jarnhamar]

This saves them having to confiscate, prevents sales of said firearms, allows them to actually know most the people who own them (with clear jail time for anyone caught without it registered), and prevents a expensive and time consuming confiscation plan with a high risk of failure.

They don't have to confiscate though. They can just extend the deadline ever October until they're voted out of office.

Total cost: $0
Total police salary: $0

 

[Halifax Tar]

Pragmatically speaking, all that will happen is the Liberals will kick the gun confiscation down the road for 4 more years and not offer gun owners any compensation for their firearms. Gun owners won't be able to use their firearms and will be out any meager compensation they could have hoped to receive.

We just need to hang on. And woe be the Con party that forms a Gov that doesn't correct this right away.

 

[Haggis]

We just need to hang on. And woe be the Con party that forms a Gov that doesn't correct this right away.

Gun control is not of great importance to any party as soon as they win the election. The Liberals have had 5 years to strip us of our guns, yet nothing has really happened yet. They promised, but it's fallen into the "too hard right now" pile. But they'll promise again for the next election.

It's a wedge issue and a niche issue. Yes, there are 2.2 - 2.3 M PAL holders in Canada but only a fraction, about 15%, were significantly impacted by C-21 and C-71 and the OICs. So, you can't as a CPC campaign planner, count on 2.2 m votes by PAL holders.

Given the way the Liberals have crafted the changes brought in by C-21 and C-71, it will be very difficult for the CPC to reverse them without a a strong majority government. And it won't happen as quickly as many hope.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Gun control is not of great importance to any party as soon as they win the election. The Liberals have had 5 years to strip us of our guns, yet nothing has really happened yet. They promised, but it's fallen into the "too hard right now" pile. But they'll promise again for the next election.

It's a wedge issue and a niche issue. Yes, there are 2.2 - 2.3 M PAL holders in Canada but only a fraction, about 15%, were significantly impacted by C-21 and C-71 and the OICs. So, you can't as a CPC campaign planner, count on 2.2 m votes by PAL holders.

Given the way the Liberals have crafted the changes brought in by C-21 and C-71, it will be very difficult for the CPC to reverse them without a a strong majority government. And it won't happen as quickly as many hope.

I think the number is a lot greater than 15% once those last OICs started happening. They have basically banned every magazine fed semi-auto including ones that have been on the market since WWII.

 

[Haggis]

I think the number is a lot greater than 15% once those last OICs started happening. They have basically banned every magazine fed semi-auto including ones that have been on the market since WWII.

The vast majority of hunters don't own SA long guns. They have bolt actions or single shot. The OIC banned firearms that the government knows about are owned by a very small percentage of PAL holders and many of them own more than one. Same with handguns. Those owners make up less than a quarter of all PAL holders. Handgun owners were treated benevolently by the government. Trudeau himself said that we were allowed to keep our handguns until we die with no new restrictions on how they could be legally used. How magnanimous of him.

The guns placed on the "gap list" by the secret society have not yet been banned.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The vast majority of hunters don't own SA long guns.

I don't think that's true. My info is all anecdotal but every hunter I know has a SA Long gun of some sort.

They have bolt actions or single shot.

I think you would be surprised how many have, at least, one of each.

The OIC banned firearms that the government knows about are owned by a very small percentage of PAL holders and many of them own more than one. Same with handguns.

ARs, M1 Carbines, M14/M1A/M305s, and now it sounds like Garands are coming to the list. That's a lot of guns...

 

[Haggis]

I don't think that's true. My info is all anecdotal but every hunter I know has a SA Long gun of some sort.

Most I know have a bolt action rifle and maybe a pump shotgun. Some have only black powder.

I think you would be surprised how many have, at least, one of each.

Possibly, My personal sample size is quite large as I work with a lot of hunters.

ARs, M1 Carbines, M14/M1A/M305s, and now it sounds like Garands are coming to the list. That's a lot of guns...

My belief is that the end state will be bolt action or single shot long guns only.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Most I know have a bolt action rifle and maybe a pump shotgun. Some have only black powder.

Possibly, My personal sample size is quite large as I work with a lot of hunters.

My belief is that the end state will be bolt action or single shot long guns only.

My understanding is the total numbers of guns that are supposed to turned in is dwarfing the cash put aside to provide compensation.

I think what they want, and what they will get may very possible be two different things.

I don't see this Firearms stuff having the political clout, or legs, behind it that it once did. I there are just some really loud anti-gun folks.

 

[Deleted member 175000]

I don't think that's true. My info is all anecdotal but every hunter I know has a SA Long gun of some sort.

But most of those are Winchester 100's, commercial/ sporting BAR's, Remington 742 or 7400 on the rifle side, and Auto-5's, 1100's etc on the shotgun. Then a lot of .22LR Cooey/Lakefield/ Savage 64's and the odd Ruger 10/22.

If it weren't for Quebec Carney would have a super easy path to cementing the firearms file as a poison pill issue for the CPC.

• Back off the SKS and Garand
• Remove any .22 from the OIC lists
• Codify protection for the SKS,Garand, .22's, the guns I initially listed, plus any other currently other NR firearm
• Provide some sort of grandfather provision (shift them all to restricted class with an amnesty period for people to upgrade?) to replace the buyback/ confiscation and avoid criminalizing law abiding Canadians

If the LPC left a the file as above, the number of Canadians that would actually care to relax it would be tiny (and dwindling every year), and any attempt to relax it would set up as easy attack line of Conservative's wanting to get "dangerous assault weapons" back on our streets.

 

[Haggis]

My understanding is the total numbers of guns that are supposed to turned in is dwarfing the cash put aside to provide compensation.

And that's exactly the message the Liberals are pushing. "Declare your banned guns to us now and get compensated before the money runs out." Once those guns are declared, they are forfeit. The vast majority of owners won't see a cent.

I think what they want, and what they will get may very possible be two different things.

I expect with the level of resistance to the scheme growing daily, that the Liberals will take some drastic action to accomplish the program objectives.

I don't see this Firearms stuff having the political clout, or legs, behind it that it once did.

In rural Canada it still has some life left in it as rural Canadians don't want to play along. In urban Canada, same, but with the opposite goal in mind. Urbanites "know" guns are bad and they are constantly reminded of that by the MSM.

I there are just some really loud anti-gun folks.

Don't forget well funded and influential as well as "loud".

 

[Eaglelord17]

The vast majority of hunters don't own SA long guns. They have bolt actions or single shot. The OIC banned firearms that the government knows about are owned by a very small percentage of PAL holders and many of them own more than one. Same with handguns. Those owners make up less than a quarter of all PAL holders. Handgun owners were treated benevolently by the government. Trudeau himself said that we were allowed to keep our handguns until we die with no new restrictions on how they could be legally used. How magnanimous of him.

The guns placed on the "gap list" by the secret society have not yet been banned.

I think you would be surprised by what hunters own and use.

I am in a hunter rich area, only one PAL holder I know has been unaffected by this and some of them are truly ‘fudds’.

So many firearms banned (over 2500 makes and models as they like to advertise) means it hits tons of people. There is .22s in that list (like the M1 .22). There is hunting rifles on that list, big game hunters in particular were effected (Ruger No 1., etc.). There is 5.56 semis (Ruger Mini 14s, SL-8, etc.) which I know a few hunters that liked them for hunting coyotes. There is older milsurps which hunters have been using since they became available on the market or have owned since they were widely available.

Firearms owners aren’t a monolith, they don’t only buy one specific type of firearm. Yes the media will find the most semi-auto hating hunter out there and parade them out to justify their actions, but most hunters aren’t like that.