The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[Halifax Tar]

Maybe there is some hope for Canada.

Our only hope is a Conservative strong majority and the willingness to walk back the clock.

And that doesn't look like its anywhere near here or horizon.

Whats next will be further attacks from the LPC on our community once they deem

 

[Haggis]

And the Law of Unintended Consequences has reared it's ugly head.

CCFR is reporting that they have been contacted by deployed and OUTCAN CAF members who cannot use the ASFCP portal from where they are. Some will not be back in Canada before registration closes and therefore cannot apply for compensation, nor register their firearms for eventual collection.

It'll be interesting to see how various chains of command respond to this.

 

[NavyShooter]

Let it fail.

 

[Haggis]

Let it fail.

It won't and it can't. The LPC have invested too much in this already and it's key to retaining QC as their vital ground.

 

[Halifax Tar]

And the Law of Unintended Consequences has reared it's ugly head.

CCFR is reporting that they have been contacted by deployed and OUTCAN CAF members who cannot use the ASFCP portal from where they are. Some will not be back in Canada before registration closes and therefore cannot apply for compensation, nor register their firearms for eventual collection.

It'll be interesting to see how various chains of command respond to this.

Had a guy a few deployments ago have his house broken into and his firearms stolen. Took the safes right off the wall.

The ship was good enough to fly him home to deal with it.

Sounds like a case for home location HLTA.

 

[Ostrozac]

Sounds like a case for home location HLTA.

Lots of people are posted OUTCAN with one HLTA a year, that they use at Christmas. The February to October window for this specific program is incompatible with that. So some people are going to have to take an extra trip home, out of their own pocket, if they want to comply with the law.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Lots of people are posted OUTCAN with one HLTA a year, that they use at Christmas. The February to October window for this specific program is incompatible with that. So some people are going to have to take an extra trip home, out of their own pocket, if they want to comply with the law.

Yup, I get it. It's a ****** up program.

 

[KevinB]

Lots of people are posted OUTCAN with one HLTA a year, that they use at Christmas. The February to October window for this specific program is incompatible with that. So some people are going to have to take an extra trip home, out of their own pocket, if they want to comply with the law.

The fact there is no carve out for deployed service members is just another example of the GoC ignoring the CAF and its personnel.

 

[Haggis]

The fact there is no carve out for deployed service members is just another example of the GoC ignoring the CAF and its personnel.

The current MND is the former PS Minister and the co-architect of all this stupidity. The same lack of access to the portal would also likely impact other federal employees OUTCAN such as GAC, CBSA, DFAIT and snowbirds as well.

 

[KevinB]

The current MND is the former PS Minister and the co-architect of all this stupidity. The same lack of access to the portal would also likely impact other federal employees OUTCAN such as GAC, CBSA, DFAIT and snowbirds as well.

IMHO there should be carve outs for any GoC personnel OUTCAN for pretty much everything.
Snowbirds, well that is on their own schedule, so I don't see the same issue as people who are out of the country by direction and in employment of the crown.

I mean if Provinces can make allowances for drivers licenses that expire overseas, it shouldn't be that hard for the Federal Government to make allowances for it's variety of imbecilic tasks either.

 

[Harris]

Some folks in CB claim they recieved compensation... But I cannot confirm and honestly I question their input.

Turn out so far

So <10 in Nanuvut? How do they not know the actual number? Isn't this a computer based system? Or at least shouldn't they know exactly what the number currently is? I wonder if the real number is 0?

 

[Furniture]

So <10 in Nanuvut? How do they not know the actual number? Isn't this a computer based system? Or at least shouldn't they know exactly what the number currently is? I wonder if the real number is 0?

Maybe because <10 is less embarrassing than putting in 1 or 2?

 

[captloadie]

I'm not sure if this was posted somewhere else in the forums, but I think it is actions like those that resulted in this court martial here provide fuel for the anti-gun fire. They will point to the fact that even trained legal gun owners don't follow the rules, and therefore why should anyone be allowed to have them.

TL/DR: The RSO for a range day brought his personal pistol to the range after specifically being told not to, and without getting the proper Authorization to Transport Restricted or Prohibited weapons.

 

[dapaterson]

I'm not sure if this was posted somewhere else in the forums, but I think it is actions like those that resulted in this court martial here provide fuel for the anti-gun fire. They will point to the fact that even trained legal gun owners don't follow the rules, and therefore why should anyone be allowed to have them.

TL/DR: The RSO for a range day brought his personal pistol to the range after specifically being told not to, and without getting the proper Authorization to Transport Restricted or Prohibited weapons.

Don't forget about the close protection military police MWO who brought a personal weapon into a secure area at work.

Anderson J.A.J. (Master Warrant Officer), R. v. - Chief Military Judge

Get quick, easy access to all Government of Canada services and information.

decisia.jmc-cmj.forces.gc.ca

Something about a crown with a laurel, apparently...

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'm not sure if this was posted somewhere else in the forums, but I think it is actions like those that resulted in this court martial here provide fuel for the anti-gun fire. They will point to the fact that even trained legal gun owners don't follow the rules, and therefore why should anyone be allowed to have them.

Anti-gun types are just as likely to access inappropriate material on their personal computers as a legal gun owner is to break the law. Or have a few glasses of wine then go pick up their kids. Or text and drive. People are always going to look for and find examples to support their arguments.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I'm not sure if this was posted somewhere else in the forums, but I think it is actions like those that resulted in this court martial here provide fuel for the anti-gun fire. They will point to the fact that even trained legal gun owners don't follow the rules, and therefore why should anyone be allowed to have them.

TL/DR: The RSO for a range day brought his personal pistol to the range after specifically being told not to, and without getting the proper Authorization to Transport Restricted or Prohibited weapons.

You have one example of someone breaking administrative law (and I say administrative because said example didn’t actually do anything dangerous, like threaten someone or shoot in a dangerous manner, nor had the intent to do something dangerous), and are trying to paint a huge segment of society (approximately 10% of the population) with a broad brush to push a emotional agenda that falls apart under scrutiny.

To put it in clearer terms, because Randy from Halifax kept driving with a out of date licence plate you shouldn’t be allowed a vehicle. Clearly we can’t trust people with vehicles because of one example that didn’t follow the law. That is the argument your pushing here.

The fact that occurrences like this are so rare in our legal system speaks to how law abiding a group firearms owners are.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I'm not sure if this was posted somewhere else in the forums, but I think it is actions like those that resulted in this court martial here provide fuel for the anti-gun fire. They will point to the fact that even trained legal gun owners don't follow the rules, and therefore why should anyone be allowed to have them.

TL/DR: The RSO for a range day brought his personal pistol to the range after specifically being told not to, and without getting the proper Authorization to Transport Restricted or Prohibited weapons.

Don't forget about the close protection military police MWO who brought a personal weapon into a secure area at work.

Anderson J.A.J. (Master Warrant Officer), R. v. - Chief Military Judge

Get quick, easy access to all Government of Canada services and information.

decisia.jmc-cmj.forces.gc.ca

Something about a crown with a laurel, apparently...

What all the LEOs that loose their firearms ?

 

[Booter]

They have lost personal issue firearms. But the majority of those are not personal issue firearms. In fact a large portion of them are firearms that weren’t documented properly before being transitioned to training aids. As someone who had to audit those lists.

That’s a misleading way to write that up. But that said- if you called Ottawa with your list and asked why they wouldn’t have the answer for you.

We do lose too many firearms though.

 

[captloadie]

Hey, I'm not saying I believe that one guy did something wrong, so ban everything. I'm saying that for hot button issues, it doesn't help when one side provides more ammo to the opponents argument. And as long as the pro-gun side relies on the drunk driver, what about knives, or its illegal guns causing the problem arguments, instead of why firearms can have a positive effect on society, it will never move the needle.

 

[Halifax Tar]

They have lost personal issue firearms. But the majority of those are not personal issue firearms. In fact a large portion of them are firearms that weren’t documented properly before being transitioned to training aids. As someone who had to audit those lists.

That’s a misleading way to write that up. But that said- if you called Ottawa with your list and asked why they wouldn’t have the answer for you.

We do lose too many firearms though.

You've confuse me, which admittedly is easy.

Are you saying that since 2020 the RCMP and it's officers haven't lost 122 handguns, 55 shotguns, 23 rifles, 3 submachine guns, and 2 machine guns

Hey, I'm not saying I believe that one guy did something wrong, so ban everything. I'm saying that for hot button issues, it doesn't help when one side provides more ammo to the opponents argument. And as long as the pro-gun side relies on the drunk driver, what about knives, or its illegal guns causing the problem arguments, instead of why firearms can have a positive effect on society, it will never move the needle.

Are you engaged much with the firearms community ?

I ask because the various underlying organizations do all kinds of classes and events to showcase positive use of firearms.

One also has to remember there is a cohort in Canada, who doesn't believe in any type of private firearms ownership. And no exposure to positive firearms usage or employment will change that. And most of that cohort is in the LPC and NDP ranks.