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SmartAssIrishMan said:
OK, now I'm getting confused, if this is all about Arar looking for his 'Warholian 15', they why exactly did the Commissioner feel compelled to resign?
The Merged Maher Arar Thread
- Thread starter K. Ash
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OK, now I'm getting confused, if this is all about Arar looking for his 'Warholian 15', they why exactly did the Commissioner feel compelled to resign?
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Arar Seeks Source of Media Leaks
OTTAWA (CP) - Maher Arar is calling on the government to launch an independent investigation into leaks to the media that falsely linked him to terrorist activities.
Arar says he's been permanently affected by the stigma attached to the allegations and he says the resignation of RCMP Commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli, effective next Thursday, does not adequately address the issue of accountability.
"The public deserves to have the full truth," Arar said in a national teleconference from his new home in Kamloops, B.C. "Accountability is about more than one person, or one agency, or one government department."
Arar was deported by U.S. authorities to his native Syria in 2002, where he was tortured into false confessions of terrorist links before he was released and returned to his adopted country of Canada.
A federal inquiry into the affair pointed to RCMP evidence falsely linking Arar to al-Qaida as likely playing a role in the U.S. decision to deport him.
Arar pointed out that the commissioner, Justice Dennis O'Connor, concluded in his final report that federal officials intentionally smeared his reputation and tried to "protect their own" by intentionally leaking false information to the media.
"These leaks had a devastating effect on my psychological, mental and financial well-being. We still do not know who these officials are and I am afraid that they will destroy other people's lives unless they are caught and held accountable."
Arar's lawyer, Julian Falconer, says the damage has filtered through the entire Arar family - Arar himself cannot travel to 70 countries, a brother has lost his trucking business, and his parents have "aged horribly" over the course of the four-year ordeal.
Falconer says it's "absolutely essential" that parties responsible for the fiasco are identified and held accountable for what he described as the "carnage" and "devastation" they made of Arar's life.
The two said government agencies such as the RCMP "cannot be left to investigate themselves."
"There must be an independent and impartial investigation into those leaks . . . to restore public confidence in the institutions that are supposed to protect them," Arar said.
"I cannot have confidence in these institutions until I know that what happened to me will never happen to anyone else."
OTTAWA (CP) - Maher Arar is calling on the government to launch an independent investigation into leaks to the media that falsely linked him to terrorist activities.
Arar says he's been permanently affected by the stigma attached to the allegations and he says the resignation of RCMP Commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli, effective next Thursday, does not adequately address the issue of accountability.
"The public deserves to have the full truth," Arar said in a national teleconference from his new home in Kamloops, B.C. "Accountability is about more than one person, or one agency, or one government department."
Arar was deported by U.S. authorities to his native Syria in 2002, where he was tortured into false confessions of terrorist links before he was released and returned to his adopted country of Canada.
A federal inquiry into the affair pointed to RCMP evidence falsely linking Arar to al-Qaida as likely playing a role in the U.S. decision to deport him.
Arar pointed out that the commissioner, Justice Dennis O'Connor, concluded in his final report that federal officials intentionally smeared his reputation and tried to "protect their own" by intentionally leaking false information to the media.
"These leaks had a devastating effect on my psychological, mental and financial well-being. We still do not know who these officials are and I am afraid that they will destroy other people's lives unless they are caught and held accountable."
Arar's lawyer, Julian Falconer, says the damage has filtered through the entire Arar family - Arar himself cannot travel to 70 countries, a brother has lost his trucking business, and his parents have "aged horribly" over the course of the four-year ordeal.
Falconer says it's "absolutely essential" that parties responsible for the fiasco are identified and held accountable for what he described as the "carnage" and "devastation" they made of Arar's life.
The two said government agencies such as the RCMP "cannot be left to investigate themselves."
"There must be an independent and impartial investigation into those leaks . . . to restore public confidence in the institutions that are supposed to protect them," Arar said.
"I cannot have confidence in these institutions until I know that what happened to me will never happen to anyone else."
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Is there any quantifiable evidence that he was tortured?
I always thought he looked pretty fit for a guy claiming torture and as I said earlier 37 million of our tax payer dollars is going to make him feel better HOW?
He spouts off about justice but he wants all that money
I always thought he looked pretty fit for a guy claiming torture and as I said earlier 37 million of our tax payer dollars is going to make him feel better HOW?
He spouts off about justice but he wants all that money
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Bruce Monkhouse said:
Ahh yes.. Msr. Juilan Falconer. Seems he moved on from representing scum of the earth drug dealers. What I can't figure is why Arar has hooked up with this numpty. Clearly, an antagonistic move on his part. It would be nice if someone represented the taxpayer's interests here and moved to restrain the government from paying legal fees to this deviant windbag Falconer.
Perhaps its time to have a little sneak peak look into the books of Mr. Falconer's trust accounts and see whose funds he is
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When did he go from Canadian citizen who grew up here to hapless immigrant who made connections with the wrong people? How was he unable to establish himself financially from the age of 17 to 37? Are you telling me a civil engineer is unable to establish a credit rating without outside help?xmarcx said:
Dangerous offenders are now subject to the "reverse onus" system in which they must prove that they are not dangerous, and they are detained until they can do so - just for an exercise in theory, apply it to the Arar case. He can't prove that he is not a terrorist.
Once again, is he a born and raised Canadian citizen, as you claim? Or is he a fearful immigrant, scared of every uniform in every country? You can't have it both ways - which is he?
There was no precedent for 9/11 either - but it happened.
He was sent back - to the country of his birth, in which he retained his citizenship, of his own free will, for two decades.
....and yet he was unable to establish enough credit to lease an apartment or sufficient cash reserves, even whilst working as an engineer?
I've been detained and questioned before - and promptly released - because I was telling the truth. I did'nt feel the need for a lawyer because I had truthful explanations for everything I did. What did he have to hide?
Since you love playing the race card, lets flip that one around a bit.
Let's say GO!!!, a white, anglo male, working as an engineer in Canada for two decades, after emigrating from Ireland, has an associate who is a full patch member of the Hell's Angels. He (for some reason) is unable to secure a lease, and his biker friend helps him out. A month later, his biker friend organises the bombing of a police station, and GO!!!, simultaneously and at the same time, sells his house and prepares to move his family to the Grand Cayman islands - on vacation (even though he can't afford a house). When questioned by the authorities, GO!!! immediately lawyers up and leaves the country. At this point, a third party sends him back to Ireland, on the basis of the suspicion the Canadian authorities have. GO!!! claims he is tortured there, and demands compensation from the Canadian government to the tune of hundreds of times his annual wages. Rubes take his claims at face value with no substantiation and a self flagellating Canadian press sides with GO!!!.
Sounds pretty ridiculous when stated in the WASP context - how could a reasonable person believe it?
Because we are not fighting the war on terror in Belfast (anymore), and Irishmen did not murder thousands of civilians in New York, London, Madrid, Bali, Baghdad and Kandahar.
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I obviously haven't seen his lease, or know why it called for a cosigner, but your argument doesn't say anything either. If he had a great credit rating or money, and knew Almalki was a fellow terrorist, why the heck would he unnecessarily add his name to his lease? Is it some big Al-Qaeda in joke? It doesn't make any sense.GO!!! said:
Dangerous offenders have already been convicted of a crime, Arar never was. Of course he can't prove he isn't a terrorist. I can't prove I'm not a terrorist. You can't prove you aren't a terrorist - in fact, you might be the best one yet, killing your less important fellow terrorists to win the trust and respect of the infidels. I think we can at least agree that we'd prefer to live in a society that followed the innocent until proven guilty, burden of proof rests with the accuser rule, rather than a constant witch hunt.
There are a lot of Canadians who are at least anxious of people in uniforms. He came here at 17, which is getting pretty old to move fro m one civilization to another. He was obviously making a life here but there's a huge culture gap that is hard to adjust to and he seems to have mostly stuck to his fellow Muslims in social situations. Either way, it indicates a nervous disposition as much as it does any kind of guilt.
He became a Canadian citizen in 1991. That means he's afforded all the rights of the Constitution and Charter. If the government has some dirt on him, they are obligated to deal with it in a legal manner, they can't just turf him abroad to his country of second citizenship.
ALSO
It's not fair to say he happily held onto his Syrian citizenship, as Syria makes it very difficult to actually renounce it.
Quote from a US government report available at http://www.opm.gov/extra/investigate/IS-01.pdf
Though voluntary renunciation of Syrian citizenship is permitted by law, the Syrian Information Office stated that it is so complicated that it is best not to attempt the process. In effect, according to that Office, the process is complicated in order to discourage renunciation of Syrian citizenship. Former citizens of Syria probably maintain an unofficial dual citizenship status and would be subject to Syrian law as citizens should they return to Syria.
He's probably going to kick himself over this for the rest of his life, sure. But there was obviously a Muslim-terrorist hunt on at the time, race card or not, it's not like everyone was equally considered a target right after 9/11. Having a lawyer is a right, requesting one being present at an interview should not automatically label him as a terrorist. I've also been detained, and if its something easy to disprove like, no, I did not break into that family's house and rob them at gunpoint, since, I'm a two feet taller than the man they saw and covered in tattoos, I wouldn't ask for a lawyer (and didn't). If someone wanted to start asking me about all my friends, I'd be freaked out enough to demand one.
It still doesn't work. In fact your story actually reflects a lot of the assumptions that were made about Arar, instead of sending somebody out to double check. They happened to stumble across Almalki's name on his lease and decided he must be in cahoots. Then when he let the lease on his townhouse expire, and went to stay with family in Tunisia (for free!) as he had done many times before, they put into the report that he had sold his house, a house he never owned. That's a lot different then giving up a lease, maybe he wanted to move to a bigger place when he got back, it was a convenient way to do it without renting an empty house. He also left some time after the RCMP declined to interview him, it was not right after as was apparently indicated in files on him. Then the RCMP passed on information to a third party which specifically said he was a terrorist, not that they had some blanks to fill in, or were suspicious. If they had wanted to investigate, they could have just waited for him to fly from New York to Ottawa and arrested him then. It makes no sense why they passed it on to the Americans, especially in the form they did.
As an added bonus, it actually turns out Almalki was innocent too, he also went to jail in Syria,
And I just want to add, I don't think he deserves that much money. I don't know what a fair amount is but that strikes me as a lot.
I think at the very least he deserved the apologies he received, and now deserves that his name be cleared. The inquiry should have done that.
CSIS knows the importance of gaining the trust of diaspora communities to break terrorist plots domestically. They are also quite proud of their continuing efforts to reach out to and develop positive relationships with these groups. It seems that such help was critical in breaking the Toronto terrorist plot early this year. They especially need the help of Muslim-Canadians, and aren't doing the cause any favors by accidentally deporting their friends. If we want them to feel confident enough and proud enough of their Canadian citizenships to step up and help defend the country, we have to prove that if we do make mistakes we're at least willing to make them right. Branding every suspect a terrorist for the rest of their lives is not a positive step.
CSIS participated in the Inquiry, they say Arar is clean. That should be good enough for every Canadian to accept.
The money is for the politicians to figure out, his innocence is confirmed.
Edited to reflect my inaccurate claim that Almalki won a settlement form Syria...what was I thinking...
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There is also the extraordinary lengths the RCMP went to in an attempt to cover this up. If Arar was guilty, why did the RCMP feel the need to cover it up and then start a smear campaign in the press? This sort of behaviour on the part of the RCMP is exactly why intelligence and counter-terrorism was taken away from them in the 80's and why CSIS and JTF2 were formed. CSIS was created to deal with counter-terrorism and to also have civilian oversight, unlike the RCMP. The reason was because of the abuses of the RCMP during the 60's and 70's. Unfortunately, in the panic following 9/11, the Liberal government went against the findings of the McDonald commission and gave these powers back to the RCMP and now we are seeing the result.
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Quote from xarcx,
As an added bonus, it actually turns out Almalki was innocent too, he also went to jail in Syria, won a bunch of money from the Syrian government, and is now living back in Canada free as a bird, and CSIS and the RCMP don't seem to have a problem with him anymore.
:rofl: :rofl: oh please, make it stop, I'm peeing myself, :rofl: :rofl:
Yup, the Syrian govt. is so benevolent............
As an added bonus, it actually turns out Almalki was innocent too, he also went to jail in Syria, won a bunch of money from the Syrian government, and is now living back in Canada free as a bird, and CSIS and the RCMP don't seem to have a problem with him anymore.
:rofl: :rofl: oh please, make it stop, I'm peeing myself, :rofl: :rofl:
Yup, the Syrian govt. is so benevolent............
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He's not talking about Arar there.....
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xmarx,
Still too many holes in this one for me.
I don't know too many dumb engineers, and most of what Arar did was just plain dumb, and extremely suspicious in the post 9/11 context.
You sell him alternately as a hapless immigrant who happened to associate with the wrong people, and a contributing, professional, Canadian citizen with nothing to hide.
His business partnerships with terror suspects are glossed over, as is his de facto refusal to speak with the police and flight from our country.
So a federal inquiry cleared him of wrongdoing - so what? Our esteemed government has made mistakes before, I doubt this will be the last, and I highly doubt that this is the last we have heard of Mr. Arar, I'd love to know which "friends" he helps if he gets his 39 million, especially given his sound judgement of character in the past.
Still too many holes in this one for me.
I don't know too many dumb engineers, and most of what Arar did was just plain dumb, and extremely suspicious in the post 9/11 context.
You sell him alternately as a hapless immigrant who happened to associate with the wrong people, and a contributing, professional, Canadian citizen with nothing to hide.
His business partnerships with terror suspects are glossed over, as is his de facto refusal to speak with the police and flight from our country.
So a federal inquiry cleared him of wrongdoing - so what? Our esteemed government has made mistakes before, I doubt this will be the last, and I highly doubt that this is the last we have heard of Mr. Arar, I'd love to know which "friends" he helps if he gets his 39 million, especially given his sound judgement of character in the past.
Was there not a lower volume criticism of Chretien regarding the elder Kadar when he was held in Afghanistan. I remember the hue and cry about Canada not supporting one of its' citizens that was being wrongly detained, yada, yada....
The O'Connor enquiry did not answer very much. We already knew that was no proof positive that Arar was a terrorist, but there was none that he did not have links/friends in the organizations. We are all focusing on "poor Arar", but something still does not ring true.
The O'Connor enquiry did not answer very much. We already knew that was no proof positive that Arar was a terrorist, but there was none that he did not have links/friends in the organizations. We are all focusing on "poor Arar", but something still does not ring true.
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GO!!!,
I have enough faith in CSIS, the security intelligence agency responsible for discovering domestic terrorists, that if Arar really was a threat to our security that he'd be in a Canadian jail right now. They're good at their jobs, at least I hope. It will be interesting to see what he does with the money, but I'd be shocked if FINTRAC didn't watch where every single penny of it went.
At this point we'd obviously be going in circles so I suggest we respectfully disagree.
Bruce,
You finally got me! I have way too much paper on my desk and got my similar sounding news confused in references. The money part was bunk, though he was freeed by the Syrian Supreme Court...obviously....a legal insituiton that...ah.....exists. Point to you!
Mag,
Thanks for having my back, even though I led you straight onto a landmine. I'll try not to do that in CAP
I have enough faith in CSIS, the security intelligence agency responsible for discovering domestic terrorists, that if Arar really was a threat to our security that he'd be in a Canadian jail right now. They're good at their jobs, at least I hope. It will be interesting to see what he does with the money, but I'd be shocked if FINTRAC didn't watch where every single penny of it went.
At this point we'd obviously be going in circles so I suggest we respectfully disagree.
Bruce,
You finally got me! I have way too much paper on my desk and got my similar sounding news confused in references. The money part was bunk, though he was freeed by the Syrian Supreme Court...obviously....a legal insituiton that...ah.....exists. Point to you!
Mag,
Thanks for having my back, even though I led you straight onto a landmine. I'll try not to do that in CAP
Yrys
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
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http://www.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/regional/modele.asp?page=/regions/ottawa/2006/12/11/004-grc-oconnor-arar.shtml
lundi 11 décembre
Stocwell Day said today that he will make public the name of the RCMP polices
that give the false informations.
(french article, didn't find one in english)
lundi 11 décembre
Stocwell Day said today that he will make public the name of the RCMP polices
that give the false informations.
(french article, didn't find one in english)
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CBC News: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/12/12/oconnor-report.html
The second part of Justice Dennis O'Connor's report on the Maher Arar affair recommends creating an independent agency to review the national security activities of the RCMP.
"The case for giving an independent review body the mandate to conduct self-initiated reviews of the RCMP's national security activities is now overwhelming," O'Connor said in a statement Tuesday.
In the report, O'Connor makes 13 recommendations with respect to the review of the RCMP's national security activities, as well as five other federal departments and agencies involved in national security.
The second part of Justice Dennis O'Connor's report on the Maher Arar affair recommends creating an independent agency to review the national security activities of the RCMP.
"The case for giving an independent review body the mandate to conduct self-initiated reviews of the RCMP's national security activities is now overwhelming," O'Connor said in a statement Tuesday.
In the report, O'Connor makes 13 recommendations with respect to the review of the RCMP's national security activities, as well as five other federal departments and agencies involved in national security.
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Prepare to be shocked...xmarcx said:
First, there is a significant gap between CSIS's ability to discover domestic terrorism, and the ability to arrest and try said terrorist suspect. Canadian's rights & freedoms have always been a contentious topic, particularly in the context of CSIS and domestic surveillance - - (CSIS having been formed largely because of abuses by the RCMP Security Service, but that's a different history lecture).
This gap has widened considerably in the past year because of legislative challenges to the Anti-Terrorism Act (Bill C-36/2001). As but one example, see the 2006 Khawaja case.
FINTRAC
Now, FINTRAC has never had the authority to say "FINTRAC, old trout, lets have a look see what this guy's doing with his money." There has to be a legally-accepted cue to open a file. Even the case example on FINTRAC's website notes that, "In this case, a foreign financial intelligence unit detected suspected money laundering activity linked to an import/export business and advised FINTRAC." They had to have a reliable cue before they could go after that organization.
Now that Arar is being nominated for saint-hood, and in light of recent rulings against the security services use of Bill C-36, no one is likely to be even rumoured to have a file on him. Otherwise, there'd be an outrageous cry, from the usual fellow travellers, of Canada being a police state oppressing its minorities.
He's pretty much free to spend his lottery winnings as he sees fit - - he'd have to be video-taped, sitting in his lawnchair at a terrorist attack, with a script in hand, before anyone's likely to risk political fallout from touching him.
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