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The "Nursing Officer" Merged Thread

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Armymedic

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Personally, I cringe when non-engineers teach mine awareness...Unless its for medical pers about how the engineers/medics assist the other in extraction of casualites.
 

Fraser.g

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If I was not an engineer before, 1990-2000, I would not even dream of telling other pers about a trade that I have no experience in. However, I was an engineer and served with 1 CER on roto 1 to Yugo with UNPROFOR and have some personal experience when it comes to mine breaching and awareness as well as instructing at the school.

GF
 

Spr.Earl

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Armymedic said:
Personally, I cringe when non-engineers teach mine awareness...Unless its for medical pers about how the engineers/medics assist the other in extraction of casualites.

The only pers ALLOWED to instruct in Mine Awareness and Extraction are QUALIFIED F.E.'S no if ands or buts,no matter if you were an F.E. in the past!!!!



 

Fraser.g

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When the option is having an Ex Engineer do the course or no course at all then the former is preferable to the latter. The fact is that there are NO Field Engineers in 38 Brigade and therefore none in Saskatchewan or Manitoba.

Would you rather have an entire reserve brigade not taught?'
In this world of fiscal restraint no unit is willing to fly a team out to teach the material. The brigade has, in the past, used local members to teach the course. That is MSE ops teaching at Svc Bn, Infanteers teaching themselves etc.

We have, in the past had several from 6, myself included and one from Calgary but they have moved on. This leaves me.

GF
 

Spr.Earl

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As for no Eng support for Mine Awareness I suggest you take this up higher and make it official that you are not getting this training every year.  
As evreyone knows MIne Awareness has been the "Flavour of the Month" for years now. 

You do go to Wain. every year yes? If so request for 8 F.E.R. to send a few bodies over and they would most likely be more than happy to oblige.

If you are instructing just make sure the material you are teaching is current.
As we all know in our repective trades,we flip flop back and forth every few years,what I mean is,one year you do it this way and the next year or the year after another way.
Just make sure your current. C.Y.A.!!  ;)
 

Fraser.g

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Good ideas all, I have been requesting and getting the most up to date doctrine that is released by the school and accessable on the DIN along with the PPT presentations.

As for going to Wx for training. Dundurn is 20 minutes down the road so we train there. Have you ever tried to book Wx during the year? They are booked up years in advance.

Mean while back to the topic of Nursing in the military.

Who is going to the big conference in Edmonton at the end of September?

GF
 

Fraser.g

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Op Med was a great conference! Lots of networking and great presentations during both MOC days and the full conference.

There are several changes comming on the regular and reserve side of the house to the 57 trade.

Each reserve Fd Amb have 7 R57 potions to fill. These are both command and clinical in nature.

The OTC competency requirement has now been applied to both regular force and reserve Nurses as well as Regular force TQ 5 Med Tecs.

A new MCSP is comming out for the 57 Trade, stay tuned.

If I heard about Memoranda of Understanding one more time I was going to be sick but they are being generated for hospitals so that an increased number of 57s can be in the hospital and this also goes for med tecs and medics.

As always, we have herd the promices, now it is up to us to put pressure on the leadership to follow through. If any of you have an idea for a clinical area or a sharing with the local civi medical system lay it out and send it up the chain! If the Regular force NOs want to maintain their clinical competencies there has to be a pro-active approach taken. We know from the past that the passive approach does not work.

Ta

GF
 

Fraser.g

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OK so there seems to finally be a MCSP for nurses. At this point I believe there should be a splitting of the ways. Critical care MCSP and GDN another. We could go further and say that ER, ICU, CCU, in one side and Med, Surg, Ortho as well as palliative in another.

what does the readership feel should be the critical skill sets for each.

I do not know how many of each read this forum but from the ER side of the house I do not believe my skill set should be measured with CCU and ICU. Each has their own drive and skills. Just because you work ICU does not mean you are an ER nurse and vice versa. Why should we have the same MCSP.

I have not seen the MCSP for any nursing group and therefore this may be preemptive. I am looking for feedback both regular and reserve.

GF
 
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Nightengale

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I am a 24 year old Registered Nurse and I am considering joining the Canadian Forces.  I realize this is a very big commitment and I am trying to gather as much information as I can about the entire process, lifestyle, ups and downs, etc.  I am looking for helpful information from the ground up because I realize that recruiters and pamphlets have their limitations.

I did visit my local recruiter but I found that he didn't have much 'nursing' specific information.  I am wondering what Basic Officer Training is like...how many people make it, specifically females...Also I am wondering about the living conditions, pay, cost of living while you are doing basic training and how physically demanding it really is.  What type of physical training should I be doing to prepare for basic training?  I'm fit but I'm no powerhouse (5"4 125 lbs)..lol

Also, I have read some posts that said a lot of Nursing Officers do a lot of administrative 'desk" type work.  That doesn't really appeal to me.  I'm a critical care nurse right now and would like to keep those skills.  Is this possible and what element would I be most likely to continue with critical care nursing? 

Any information would be greatly appreciated,
Thanks in advance!
 

PRL ER NO

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Hi, welcome to the few and proud Nursing Officer role in the CF.   I am one of the old type, old infantry in the reserves now in the new CFHS PRL.   Not all Nursing Officer fly desks for a living.   Attached is some info about the role of MOC 57, Nursing in the forces


Nursing 57

What They Do

The primary role of a Nursing Officer is to use his or her professional training and experience in support of the Canadian Forces Medical Service.   In doing so, the Nursing Officer will be required to teach and supervise other personnel, to encourage the maintenance of health and the prevention of illness, and to provide comprehensive nursing care to the sick and injured.  

Qualification Requirements

To become a Nursing Officer, you must have a university Nursing degree and be currently registered with a provincial or territorial registered nurses' association.   You will be expected to meet Canadian Forces medical standards and go through a selection process which includes test and interview procedures.
The entry plans that provide access to the Nursing Military Occupation are described below.   More detailed information on these plans can be obtained from your nearest Canadian Forces Recruiting office by calling 1-800-856-8488.

Plans for Entry

Regular Officer Training Plan (ROTP)   â “ If you qualify for this plan, you will complete your university education under government sponsorship prior to commencing full-time employment as a military Nursing Officer.   To be eligible, you must possess the required prerequisites for the Canadian University you plan to attend, or be currently enrolled in an undergraduate university Nursing programme leading to a baccalaureate in Nursing.
Direct Entry Officer (DEO)   â “ To qualify for direct entry as a Nursing Officer, you must be a registered nurse, a graduate of an accredited university degree programme, and hold a current licence to practise in a Canadian province or territory.

Training

PHASE I
Basic Officer Training Course   - If your application has been successful, you will be enrolled in the Canadian Forces and then proceed to the Canadian Forces Leadership and Recruit School in Saint-Jean, Quebec, for the 13-week Basic Officer Training Course.   In Saint-Jean, you will be introduced to life in the Canadian Forces and taught leadership techniques, dress and deportment standards, as well as the regulations and the rank structure of the Canadian Forces.   This phase of your training does not involve nursing and it is extremely physically demanding.
The Basic Officer Training Course is given in either English or French and successful completion is a prerequisite for further training.   At this point, if you have been enrolled under the Direct Entry Officer plan, you will be commissioned in the rank of Second Lieutenant/Acting Sub-Lieutenant (Navy), with subsequent promotion to Lieutenant/Sub-Lieutenant (Navy).   At this stage, if you are not bilingual in the two official languages, you would normally attend a second language training course of approximately seven months in duration.

PHASE II

Basic Nursing Office Course - During the Basic Nursing Officer Course, you will receive detailed knowledge of the skills and techniques required to perform effectively and efficiently as a Nursing Officer in a field or clinic environment.   You will learn what is meant by â Å“field medical environment,â ? and how to triage and evacuate battle casualties.
You will be taught the role, organization and channels of communication of the Canadian Forces Medical Service, and receive detailed knowledge pertaining to the medical-legal responsibilities of Medical Assistants, Nursing Officers and other military health care personnel.
You will become familiar with the principles and methods of teaching that will allow you to conduct on-job training for Medical Assistants.   In accordance with the Canadian Forces Personnel Assessment System (CFPAS), you will acquire further skills in observing, counselling, recording, reporting and interviewing procedures.   You may spend a short time at a civilian hospital to gain clinical experience in areas not covered by your pre-service training and/or experience.

Working Environment

Nursing Officers usually work in functional buildings.   In field medical units, the working conditions will vary due to operational and climatic conditions as well as to the limitations of equipment and medical supplies.
The work schedule of each facility is adapted to its functions.   In detachments, general duty personnel will work either eight-hour or twelve-hour shifts.   Smaller facilities may operate on an eight-hour working day, with nursing personnel on call after duty hours.   In all cases, Nursing Officers may be recalled on short notice in case of emergencies, including aeromedical evacuation flights, crashes, serious illnesses or accidents, disasters and exercises.
The intense concentration and effort needed to provide essential nursing care in varying conditions may result in mental and physical fatigue.   Generally, however, the stress involved is similar to that experienced in a civilian community or hospital setting.
Occupational hazards can be compared to those in the civilian environment, with the exception of such tasking as field and aeromedical evacuation duties.

Employment

You could be employed in a definitive care hospital, in a small facility where in-patient care is offered only on a short-time basis, in an outpatient setting, or in a field setting under varying climatic conditions.   Service requirements as well as your professional skills will dictate your first posting.
As you gain military knowledge and are assessed on your performance and potential, you could be selected for specialized nursing training in accordance with your own interests and service requirements.   Some of the courses offered include peri-operative nursing care, critical care nursing, mental health nursing, community health nursing and aeromedical evacuation.   During the span of your nursing career, you will also be required to enroll in military courses in teaching, management and administration; this will assist you in your progress toward greater responsibility and higher rank.
Depending on your interest, ability and motivation, you could have the opportunity to assume various positions of responsibility and leadership throughout your career.   You can also compete with Health Care Administration Officers and Pharmacy Officers for Health Services Operations Officer positions and progression in rank beyond Major.
 

carrieb

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Hi there,

I am recently new to the military as a Nursing Officer..a diploma nurse now being sponsored by the CF to complete my post RN degree...I am off to IAP this summer....so what interested you in becoming a military Nursing Officer?  My husband is military so that is what sparked me to join along with the new RNEP incentive.  I agree that info is limited in regards to what you will truly be doing as a nurse in the military on a daily basis.  I have been lucky enough to meet a nurse here on our home base in a field hospital who has been helpful in passing along more specific info....maybe you can try that...go in to your local base....the unit staff are very helpful and will give you a tour and answer all your questions as best they can.

Carrie
 

elminister

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Not to take away from Nightengale's question but what about if you are a first-year nursing student and you want to join with the ROTP entry, how does that work?
 

Donut

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Elminster, I've no idea about ROTP nursing, sorry.

Nightengale, for what it's worth, I've met few CF nurses who are employed in a full-time patient care capacity, and damn few who have maintained their critical care skill sets, largely due to the demands of their administrative duties, and fact that we don't run our own hospitals anymore in the CF.

I've met dozens of RN in administrative jobs, doing staff work, med estimates, equipment procurement, training plans, etc.  I understand a move is afoot to increase the amount of time that RN's spend in patient care, but, outside of a relatively few postings, most are mainly administrative.

There's been a couple of posts on similar topics in the past couple of days, the bulk of the health services info can be found on the Combat Service Support board.

Hope this helps, good luck with your choices.

DF
 

kincanucks

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elminister said:
Not to take away from Nightengale's question but what about if you are a first-year nursing student and you want to join with the ROTP entry, how does that work?

You apply under the ROTP Undergrad program and if you are selected and you pass the IAP/BOTP then your nursing degree will be subsidized for the remaining years.  Your tution, textbooks and any instruments required are provided and you are paid a monthly salary.  During the subsequent summers you take further training which may be second language or occupation training.  Go talk to your local recruiter.  :salute: :cdn:
 

Strike

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PRL ER NO,

I thought I read in the news awhile back that doctors and nurses have been encouraged to take shifts at local hospitals to keep up certain skills.  I think this was in NS or something.  Is this still the case or have I been misinformed?
 

rdschultz

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Nightengale said:
I am wondering what Basic Officer Training is like...how many people make it, specifically females...Also I am wondering about the living conditions, pay, cost of living while you are doing basic training and how physically demanding it really is. What type of physical training should I be doing to prepare for basic training? I'm fit but I'm no powerhouse (5"4 125 lbs)..lol

Having finished IAP/BOTP recently, I'll offer what I can.  I believe my platoon started wtih 9 females, and as far as I recall, all but two of them made through.  One left due to an previous injury, and another didn't pass the leadership test during IAP. 

Living conditions:  You'll live at "The Mega", in the officer quarters.  There will be either 6 or 9 rooms to a "pod" (or mod), and you'll share a bathroom or two with those individuals.  During basic, you'll have your own room, but you will not be permitted to close the door to it.  Privacy is one thing you don't get much of during IAP/BOTP.  A typical day (if there is such a thing) involves getting up at 5am (or slightly before, if you have morning PT), getting ready for inspections (which are frequent during the first part of the course, and less so near the end), and attending classes of various topics (everything from first aid and weapons to how to give orders and instructional techniques).  Classes typically are an hour long, with short breaks between them (sometimes too short) and a break for lunch (which can be 15 minutes on a bad day, or an hour on a good day).  The day is over around 5pm, with supper.  After that, you go up to your quarters, and get ready for the next day. Lights out by 11pm, which means you're in your bed sleeping or pretending to... This will be enforced by Duty staff.  Keep in mind though, there are days that are longer, some that are shorter (much rarer), and what happens from day to day and week to week changes.  One important point is that during the first four weeks of your course, you will not have any freedom.  This includes things like not being allowed off base, no civlian clothing, no alcohol, and things of that nature.  You will have access to phones though.

When I took it, there were 4 trips to the field, as well.  I believe they were 5 days, 2.5 days, 4 days, and 5 days, in that order.  You'll sleep outdoors, smell gross, and very likely lack sleep during the trips.  They're not that bad, but they're not paradise. 

Pay:  This can't be nailed down specifically, as you'll learn that the pay from person to person tends to vary.  Ask your recruiting officer what pay level you'll start off at and look at the pay charts that are available on the recruiting site.  Typically, a DEO candidate makes $3000-$3600 before deductions.  If you're married and have a place of residence, you won't have to pay for rations and quarters.  If you're single you do, and every pay (on the 15th and 30th) you'll see about $900-$1000.  If you're married, expect $450 more per month (ballpark, as I'm not sure, but thats what rations and quarters is worth), plus separation pay.  I don't know enough about that to comment on specifics, but I believe its about $12/day (ballpark).  One thing I know about separation pay is that many people in our platoon didn't see it added to their cheques throughout the whole basic course, for some reason or another, so I wouldn't necessarily count on it being there. 

Cost of living:  Well, you can decide this.  Rations and quarters are deducted off your cheque, if at all, and that covers all your meals and your living accomodations while on course.  Any other expenses are your own choice.  There will be some necessary costs (like boot polish, all the inspection kit).  A lot of people dropped money before trips to Farnham (the field) on snivel kit... things like energy bars, headlamps, and other things that made them more comfortable.  If you want to save money during the course, it certainly is possible.

Physical Training:  This depends largely on your course staff.  You'll have to do pushups, and run, so make sure you can do both of those things fairly well.  Be able to run for at least 30 minutes without stopping, I'd say.  5k minimum.  But the better shape you're in, the easier it will be.  For the not-so-active people, Basic was a good way to lose weight... for the fit people, it was a way to gain weight... so it isn't exactly punishing physically.  As well, you don't need to be a powerhouse, as long as you're reasonably tough. 

Anyways, thats about all I've got.  If you've got any specific questions about IAP/BOTP, feel free to PM me.  As I said, I just finished the course recently, so I have a fairly good idea of whats involved, and I'm more than willing to answer questions. 








 

carrieb

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Hoser,

thanks for the post about IAP...never can know enough to be prepared.  You said in the 1st 4 weeks you have no freedom and are not allowed off base...however are you allowed visitors?...I have 2 children that I would like my husband to be able to bring to visit me...

And what about cell phones....were they permitted on your course?...I realize that you probably cannot walk around with them all day turned on...but I'm thinking for my own private use at the end of the day.

thanks
Carrie
 

rdschultz

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Cell phones were no problem.  There are also pay phones on the floor for use during the evenings.  As you guessed, you can't carry them with you during the day, but you are free to use them as you wish during the evening.

Visitors during the first 4 weeks would more than likely not be allowed, although I don't recall anybody specifically asking.  The problem is, you aren't allowed on the 2nd floor during indoctrination (the first 4 weeks), and that is pretty much the only place you're able to meet people (they aren't allowed in your quarters, and they aren't allowed in the green break area, for instance).  The only thing you could do is ask your course staff once you arrive at the Mega, but I'd be willing to bet that they would say no. 
 
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JackieRE

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HI my name is Jackie,
I have a couple questions also.  I'm currently an LPN and I am interested in upgrading to a RN through the ROTP.  There are 6 courses from the first year that I have to complete before I can go into the second year of the program as a full time student to become a degree nurse.  The University offers seats in these classes to LPN's that are bridgeing into the RN program. I was wondering if the military will subsidize me for those 6 courses even though I wouldn't be a full time student.  Also I've read a great deal on this sight that nurses tend to end up in paper pushing postings.  I was wondering if this is almost forced upon them due to lack of availability of more hands on postings or if its personal preference.  I also am interested in the aeromedevac (I beleive thats how you spell it) course.  Is there opportunity for new NO's to get into this program in the first couple years of service, or is it a program that is coveted to get into?
 
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