The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[KevinB]

I like that but they can’t keep up with the Hornets. So rip out the ejection seats and install equipment to fly as a drone, add a pair of bombs to the belly hard points and give to Ukraine.

I’d say same for the Hornets…

 

[Maxman1]

I like that but they can’t keep up with the Hornets.

The Hornets are also on their way out.

 

[Quirky]

Or let’s just scrap the Tutor and not replace it at all.

Scrap the tutor, yes long overdue. Scrap the snowbirds, that would be a poor political decision considering your voting base are seniors who love nostalgia.

 

[Rifleman62]

I remember the Golden Hawks in their beautiful Sabers.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I think its basically an impossibility that the RCAF will operate a mixed fighter fleet anytime soon, given how much the RCAF desires the F-35A and ultimately, the fact all of the alternatives have significant issues to various degrees (interoperability, cost, combat viability, production rates, etc). The govt is kicking the can on the review because it is very high profile procurement of American equipment in an unpopular period, but I'll bet the 88 will come in their entirety.

Basically the only reason you see other partners buying beefed up 4th gen fighters at this point is the lack of domestic 5th+ gen alternates and politics cutting them off from the F-35. We do not have these issues, so if baffles me why so many others are willingly pushing for inferior fleets of mixed aircraft. If we get to a point where we are seriously concerned about the US undermining our ability to utilize the F-35, we've passed a point where the US can get similar results on any other hypothetical Canadian fleet by directly threatening us/the origin nation for those platforms. All of the talk about domestic production of modern fighter aircraft is laughable and a huge waste of time/effort/money for Canada.

If the US administration tells Sweden to cut Canada off from the Gripen's supply chain and support network or the US will level tariffs/sanctions on them, we'll be just as screwed as if the US did it to us themselves. Nobody is going to stick their necks out for Canada in a worse case scenario like this.

I believe that the Spanish, Italians and Germans (and Turkey as well?), are all on the hook for the 4th tranche of the Eurofighter. All of them have mixed fleets and look to continue to have mixed fleets well into the future. I believe that the RAF will continue to have a mixed fleet as well.

There is little, to no, reason why Canada shouldn't have a fighter capability equal to an Italy or Spain in terms of absolute numbers.

 

[Quirky]

There is little, to no, reason why Canada shouldn't have a fighter capability equal to an Italy or Spain in terms of absolute numbers.

Geography and Canadians priority for social safety nets over national defense. $100 Billion for war planes to kill babies* while your healthcare is on the brink of collapse doesn't look good in the headlines, and at the polls.

*average perception of fighter jets to the canadian public.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Geography and Canadians priority for social safety nets over national defense. $100 Billion for war planes to kill babies* while your healthcare is on the brink of collapse doesn't look good in the headlines, and at the polls.

*average perception of fighter jets to the canadian public.

Its the Government and CAF's responsibility to explain why there is a need for the first in order to ensure that the second has even the ability to actually occur.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Its the Government and CAF's responsibility to explain why there is a need for the first in order to ensure that the second has even the ability to actually occur.

You can explain all you want, that doesn't mean Canadians have to agree.

 

[Kirkhill]

Its the Government and CAF's responsibility to explain why there is a need for the first in order to ensure that the second has even the ability to actually occur.

The politicians can choose not to listen to CAF explanations, especially if they are hard to understand and they don't want to be bothered. They have pension cheques to write.

 

[Rainbow1910]

I believe that the Spanish, Italians and Germans (and Turkey as well?), are all on the hook for the 4th tranche of the Eurofighter. All of them have mixed fleets and look to continue to have mixed fleets well into the future. I believe that the RAF will continue to have a mixed fleet as well.

There is little, to no, reason why Canada shouldn't have a fighter capability equal to an Italy or Spain in terms of absolute numbers.

Spain, Italy and Germany all signed up for additional Eurofighter orders primarily because all three nations have significant workshares of aircraft production within their borders. This factor is not relevant at all for Canada as we have no fighter production ongoing inside the country, ironically except our contracts for various F-35 parts. If we had a hot production line of another fighter in the country, I could see the want but currently, these nations have very different situations which justifies their fleets.

Nations like Turkey and Greece are honestly not something we should be looking to emulate, their fleets of all military hardware are Frankenstein disasters of ancient garbage sitting alongside packet orders of other random, more modern equipment.

I'd love to see Canada have a fleet the size of some of the Europeans, but only if we can justify the need and if we go about building it in a smart way. Throwing a bunch of yesterdays 4th gen souped up fighters into the mix a decade down the line from now isn't the answer in the slightest.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I like that but they can’t keep up with the Hornets. So rip out the ejection seats and install equipment to fly as a drone, add a pair of bombs to the belly hard points and give to Ukraine.

But if they crashed onto the enemy they'd infect them with tetanus, so we might be called to account under the Hague Convention bio-warfare thing

 

[YZT580]

You can explain all you want, that doesn't mean Canadians have to agree.

true but if both major parties sing the same song it won't matter whether they agree or not. Defense is the only portfolio, imho, that should be bi-partisan

 

[OldSolduer]

Its the Government and CAF's responsibility to explain why there is a need for the first in order to ensure that the second has even the ability to actually occur.

Agree with that but most Canadians don’t like defence spending . Elbows up!!!

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Most Canadians are not taught about the value of defense spending and being able to either defend your nation or contribute in a useful way to oversea missions. If you mandate that as part of the education package, in 20 years you start solving some of the issues.

 

[RangerRay]

Its the Government and CAF's responsibility to explain why there is a need for the first in order to ensure that the second has even the ability to actually occur.

You can explain all you want, that doesn't mean Canadians have to agree.

I was told that Louis St Laurent managed to explain to a very sceptical Quebec why we had to be involved in the Korean War. In the end, they still didn’t like it, but at least they understood the necessity of why we were involved.

I wish more politicians used this power of persuasion today.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Actually I will give you this bit- if our training fleet also gives us a fleet of light, unsophisticated cheaper-flying aircraft that could be used for drone plinking, that’s not a bad thing. I feel like every western Air Force should be looking at options for intercepting mass drone waves like Russia’s find of using, and that cheap and light fighters are probably a part of that toolbox.

I've mentioned it before that South Koreans KAI has a variant of their T-50 trainer specifically designed for acrobatic displays.

 

[dapaterson]

I've mentioned it before that South Koreans KAI has a variant of their T-50 trainer specifically designed for acrobatic displays.

What value does an air demonstration squadron add, other than revenue for folks running airshows?

There is no empirical evidence.

 

[Kirkhill]

I was told that Louis St Laurent managed to explain to a very sceptical Quebec why we had to be involved in the Korean War. In the end, they still didn’t like it, but at least they understood the necessity of why we were involved.

I wish more politicians used this power of persuasion today.

Canadian politicians have had no interest in war, or promoting war, or war-like attitudes or industries or associations.

Lloyd Axworthy is the standard bearer for the anti-militarist faction. Recce helicopters? Maybe. Attack Helicopters? The women of the United Church guild would be foaming at the mouth and writing letters in the Globe

 

[Quirky]

What value does an air demonstration squadron add, other than revenue for folks running airshows?

There is no empirical evidence.

Every other first-world air force operates some sort of air demo unit. I don't care either way BTW.

 

[markppcli]

I believe that the Spanish, Italians and Germans (and Turkey as well?), are all on the hook for the 4th tranche of the Eurofighter. All of them have mixed fleets and look to continue to have mixed fleets well into the future. I believe that the RAF will continue to have a mixed fleet as well.

There is little, to no, reason why Canada shouldn't have a fighter capability equal to an Italy or Spain in terms of absolute numbers.

Spain and Italy operate air forces much larger than ours, roughly twice the size of ours, and they don’t include helicopters to pad it. Spains is 23000 while Italy’s is 43000. In short they can operate a mixed fighter fleet because they have far far more technicians and support personnel to make that work. Although Spain is considering replacing its F18s with more Eurofighters so there’s that.