The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Good2Golf]

You're right of course.  What I meant to say is that I'd like to have another combat base worth of fighters - another 24.

Seen.  In fairness to you, the additional two fighter squadrons didn't include any more aircraft; it just split the existing operational fleets at 3 and 4 Wing in half and re-assigned that half to the 3rd and 4th squadron, so no more operational assets.

Regards
G2G

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I'd also suggest an 'operational trg Sqn' isn't that much different than any other line Sqn.  404 Sqn can man LRPA and their missions; they're all FIC qualified Top Category aircrew.  Students are UT Category aircrew.  I'd guess, without looking at the FOM, that the Fighter community is somewhat similar.  Instructors are still aircrew.  Maintainers are still qualified maintainers.

 

[jmt18325]

Why?

Because we have a very large country, and the only real threats to it come by air or sea.  Most of that is negated by a powerful fighter force.

Where do the PYs come from? We're a zero sum game for manning, to get your 24 fighters where do you get the 500(ish) PYs to support them? What capabilities get cut?

We spend more money.  It's one of the areas I'd be very willing to see more money spent.

 

[Good2Golf]

I'd also suggest an 'operational trg Sqn' isn't that much different than any other line Sqn.  404 Sqn can man LRPA and their missions; they're all FIC qualified Top Category aircrew.  Students are UT Category aircrew.  I'd guess, without looking at the FOM, that the Fighter community is somewhat similar.  Instructors are still aircrew.  Maintainers are still qualified maintainers.

EITS:  Yes, but a short-term gain for long-term pain eating into your FG capability.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Because we have a very large country, and the only real threats to it come by air or sea.  Most of that is negated by a powerful fighter force.

Is it though?  I think it is but one of the 3 dimensions of the battlespace, all equally important and required, because of things like the pics below, which a fighter can't see or touch.  Maritime approaches are also part of the NORAD tasking.  Aerospace power is important to all, and unfortunately not one single platform best serves air, surface and sub-surface warfare. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

EITS:  Yes, but a short-term gain for long-term pain eating into your FG capability.

Very much so, but possible and if the SHTF you can move experience levels around to balance both.  Just another tool with pro's and con's...

 

[jmt18325]

The other place that I advocate spending more money is the Navy - you'll get no argument from me on that.

 

[MilEME09]

Seen.  In fairness to you, the additional two fighter squadrons didn't include any more aircraft; it just split the existing operational fleets at 3 and 4 Wing in half and re-assigned that half to the 3rd and 4th squadron, so no more operational assets.

Regards
G2G

The move to me was seemingly anticipating potential future growth. let's say by magic we decide from the defense review to expand the airforce, we order say 120-140 aircraft, go on a hiring blitz to get boots in bases and all those units have to do is grow as needed.

 

[Good2Golf]

The move to me was seemingly anticipating potential future growth. let's say by magic we decide from the defense review to expand the airforce, we order say 120-140 aircraft, go on a hiring blitz to get boots in bases and all those units have to do is grow as needed.

...or it could equally have been about the RCAF Commander of the day wanting to have proportionately more leadership positions for his fellow fighter pilots in order to apply an institutional/statistical bias to the career advancement of the fighter community, versus other communities in the RCAF?  ???

 

[PuckChaser]

The move to me was seemingly anticipating potential future growth. let's say by magic we decide from the defense review to expand the airforce, we order say 120-140 aircraft, go on a hiring blitz to get boots in bases and all those units have to do is grow as needed.

Or to create more top heavy leadership with understrength units? The army's good at the same thing.

 

[Cloud Cover]

...or it could equally have been about the RCAF Commander of the day wanting to have proportionately more leadership positions for his fellow fighter pilots in order to apply an institutional/statistical bias to the career advancement of the fighter community, versus other communities in the RCAF?  ???

Very crass but plausible. Makes me want to vomit.

Look at what EITS posted. We need to be able, at all times, to prosecute and kill that. And it's complementary air cover. FML what isn't this country of ours doing that is not just plain f'd up???

 

[MilEME09]

Or to create more top heavy leadership with understrength units? The army's good at the same thing.

You mean a Colonel shouldn't be leading a air-group of only a couple hundred? preposterous! how would we ever deploy them over sea's if they aren't the same rank as the person they are replacing from another country, only to come back and do the work of two ranks below them.

 

[dapaterson]

Imagine if the RCAF adopted their "historic ranks".  Someone would have to explain why Squadron Leaders don't lead squadrons, and Wing Commanders don't command wings...

 

[PuckChaser]

Imagine if the RCAF adopted their "historic ranks".  Someone would have to explain why Squadron Leaders don't lead squadrons, and Wing Commanders don't command wings...

Probably why they hid in the corner while the rest of us changed back for King and Country or some such.

 

[CBH99]

Come on guys, we ALL KNOW a Division is only 2000 people and needs to be led by a Lt. Gen.  Anything less would be chaotic, and we can't have that....get with the program!

A Wing Commander that doesn't command a wing?  Ha!  I just learned something today. 

 

[MilEME09]

Imagine if the RCAF adopted their "historic ranks".  Someone would have to explain why Squadron Leaders don't lead squadrons, and Wing Commanders don't command wings...

Though an some of those ranks have a nicer air force ring to them, like Air Marshall instead of Major General

 

[Good2Golf]

Come on guys, we ALL KNOW a Division is only 2000 people and needs to be led by a Lt. Gen.  Anything less would be chaotic, and we can't have that....get with the program!

A Wing Commander that doesn't command a wing?  Ha!  I just learned something today.

They do in Gander and Goose Bay... 

 

[MarkOttawa]

MilEME09: Air Marshal=LGEN:
http://find.galegroup.com/ttda/help/TTDASearchTipsSpecial3Help.html

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Eye In The Sky]

...or it could equally have been about the RCAF Commander of the day wanting to have proportionately more leadership positions for his fellow fighter pilots in order to apply an institutional/statistical bias to the career advancement of the fighter community, versus other communities in the RCAF?  ???

I remember him in the Sqn brief one morning...talking about nothing but fighter stuff.  More than a few people were sharing looks...I said quietly to the person next to me "he DOES know he is at an Aurora Sqn right now doesn't he?".  ;D

But hey, new (old) Mess Kit and leather jackets (you aren't allowed to wear flying).  What a legacy!  :nod:

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

MilEME09: Air Marshal=LGEN:
http://find.galegroup.com/ttda/help/TTDASearchTipsSpecial3Help.html

Mark
Ottawa

Don't know where you got that table, Mark, but parts of it are wrong.

In the officers, Navy Sub-lieutenant are not junior tot he equivalent Army and Air Force ranks, actually it is the opposite.

In the Non commissioned personnel, they don't even list the Petty Officer in the Navy, just the Chief Petty Officer, and they only have one level of Warrant officer, which is wrong. The Royal Navy has Warrant Officers first and second class.

And that is just what I spotted in a few seconds. Also, he does not mention the Royal Marines traditional rank-up-one when at sea, which is weird since he seem to have taken the time to note when officers of one service are junior-senior to one another at equivalent ranks. For those unfamiliar, while embarked on a ship, officers of the Royal marines are assumed, for seniority, to have one rank higher than their actual one - so a Captain steps onboard a ship  and ranks as a major for instance. I cannot recall where this tradition comes from or why it exists, but it is so.