The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[angus555]

RCAF "Fighter Kite"

 

[OldSolduer]

Avro Arrow 2 or weaponized Sr71

Sopwith Camel for me. Even dogs can fly those....

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

RCAF "Fighter Kite"

That's not a Kite. This is a Kite!

 

[angus555]

That's not a Kite. This is a Kite!

I guess we'll just have to wait 5 years to see which kite wins the procurement competition.

I'm not going to get into a discussion about 4th vs. 5th gen kites. There has already been lengthy debate here.  ;D

 

[RaceAddict]

Who's currently offloading their old kites to buy new kites?

 

[CBH99]

Everybody, but in this case I'm guessing your thinking of the Australians? 

 

[YZT580]

Good question.  by the time this competition gets out the door there should be some mid-life F35's on the market.

 

[MarkOttawa]

All five possibilities still in RCAF fighter farce:

Boeing applies to stay in race to supply Canada with fighter jets despite trade dispute
Deal to replace Canada's fighter jets worth up to $19B

Boeing Co, which is locked in a trade dispute with the Canadian government, has applied to stay in the race to supply Canada with 88 new fighter jets, the government said on Thursday.

Boeing is one of five potential contenders to supply the jets, including U.S. rival Lockheed Martin Corp.

Canada is due to release the exact specifications for the jets next year and officials say the deal is worth between $15
billion and $19 billion.

    U.S. trade agency rejected Bombardier duties as CSeries sales did not hurt Boeing

    Arrival of used Aussie fighters pushed back to summer 2019 or later

Reuters revealed last week that the U.S. aerospace giant, which angered Canada by launching a trade challenge against planemaker Bombardier Inc, would remain in the race.

None of the potential contenders is obliged to put forward their jets in the competition.

The government said the firms eligible to take part are:

    Lockheed-Martin, which makes the F-35 stealth fighter
    Boeing, which makes the F-18 Super Hornet
    Airbus, which makes the Eurofighter
    Saab AB, which makes the Gripen
    Dassault Aviation, which makes the Rafale
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/boeing-eligable-fighter-jet-bid-1.4547265

Mark
Ottawa

 

[RaceAddict]

Another ECS failure in a Growler this time:

A U.S. Navy EA-18G Growler recently made it back to base after suffering a terrifying mid-air mishap, which left its two-person crew flying blind and frostbitten after the aircraft’s environment control system failed, in part thanks to a pair of high-tech wrist watches.  The incident occurred just over a year after the canopy on another one of the electronic warfare planes exploded in a bizarre over-pressurization incident and as the service continues to struggle to find exactly what’s causing persistent reports of “hypoxia-like” symptoms across the F/A-18 Hornet, F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, and Growler fleets.

Defense News was first to report this new incident, which occurred approximately 60 miles south of Seattle, Washington. The EA-18G, assigned to Air Test and Evaluation Squadron Nine (VX-9), was flying at approximately 25,000 feet on a mission from Naval Air Station Whidbey Island, between Seattle and Vancouver BC, when the cockpit temperature plummeted to -30 degrees Fahrenheit.

The broken environmental control system (ECS) also let in a fine mist of liquid, which then froze, coating the inside of the canopy and vital flight instruments in an opaque sheen of ice. The ECS consists of a number of sub-components that are supposed to work together to manage oxygen flow to the crew, as well as cockpit pressure and temperature.

Despite using up all of their emergency oxygen supply, the crew was able to wend its way its way back to Naval Air Station Whidbey Island with help from air traffic controllers on the ground and their smart watches. In July 2017, Navy Hornet, Super Hornet, and Growler pilots each got a $450 Garmin Fenix 3 wristwatch, which can measure air pressure and altitude and display an individual’s course heading.

The service issued the watches in order to provide a backup alert mechanism in case the ECS' on-board oxygen generation system, or OBOGS, malfunctioned and cockpit pressure dropped to unsafe levels and the aircraft's built-in safety mechanisms and warning systems also failed. The Navy had not publicly stated that it could serve as a improvised navigational aid in an emergency.

Complete article: http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18762/freezing-navy-ea-18g-crew-in-ice-filled-cockpit-navigated-home-using-their-smart-watches

 

[Good2Golf]

What?!?    You mean to say that Breitling didn’t save the day?


;D

 

[Quirky]

with a frozen canopy i'd expect them to pop the hatch and fly AV style.

 

[MarkOttawa]

More on USN's semi-Super Super Hornet (China much in mind):

Super Hornets and Growlers to get bigger fuel tanks

The Navy is set to equip its Super Hornet and Growler fleet with bigger fuel tanks in the coming years, a development that will allow the jets to fly farther and provide additional capability in a changing world.

Boeing will receive $219.6 million for work on the F/A-18 E/F variants, as well as the EA-18G, according to a Pentagon announcement earlier this month.

The new conformal fuel tanks can hold 515 gallons of fuel in a low-drag configuration, an increase from the current tank’s 480-gallon capacity, according to officials with Naval Air Systems Command, or NAVAIR.

While existing fuel tanks are mounted under the wing, the new tanks will sit on top of the wing, on either side of the aircraft dorsal, according to NAVAIR.

In a conformal array, the fuel tanks hug the profile of the jet, increasing aerodynamics while freeing up space below the wings for weapons.

Super Hornets will start coming off the production line with the new tanks in FY2021, while upgrades of existing jets will commence in FY2023, according to NAVAIR.

Although new fuel tanks on a jet may seem like an innocuous development, the move reflects the military’s renewed focus on preparing for conventional warfare, and the fact that it may need to battle a rival military in the not-too-distant future.

Equipping the Super Hornet and Growler with larger fuel tanks means the carriers they launch off can float farther out at sea, out of range of increasingly formidable weapons systems in the hands of potential rival forces.

The Navy’s ability to steam or fly where it pleases has gone largely unchallenged in recent decades.

But these days, the ascendant Chinese military has developed a so-called “carrier killer” missile, and the Russian forces have been rebuilt since the country’s post-Cold War nadir.

Long-range weapons, anti-ship missiles and other technologies are proliferating around the globe, challenging the international order that is predicated on U.S. military might.

Such developments led to a recently released National Defense Strategy that identifies “great power competitors” as the major challenge facing the Pentagon...
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2018/02/27/super-hornets-and-growlers-to-get-bigger-fuel-tanks/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MarkOttawa]

Such a capability--if actually developed--would seem very useful for RCAF in NORAD mission:

This Upgrade Will Make the Super Hornet Deadlier Than Ever

In the Navy’s recent budget request, the Navy finally funded the design an acquisition of conformal fuel tanks for the Super Hornet. With the potential to extend the range of the Hornet with a low drag external fuel tank, the tanks can either expand the range of a Super Hornet or free up two high capacity weapons stations by replacing the two external tanks currently used on almost every flight. One option would help to restore a long-range interception role that has been missing from the Navy since the retirement of the Tomcat in the 2000s. With four capacity weapons stations available on the Super Hornet, the SM-6 Dual I SAM could be modified to serve as a long-range air to air missile, much like the Standard SM-1 was modified to serve as an anti-radiation during the Vietnam War.

Since the retirement of the Tomcat from carrier decks in 2006, the Navy has lacked an interceptor with the ability to engage targets capable of carrying long-range cruise missiles. With the death of the Soviet Naval Bomber Force at the end of the Cold War, there has not been a country capable of operating more than a handful of cruise missile carrying bombers. In the past few years, the threat scope has changed dramatically, as Soviet operations have expanded, and the Chinese bomber force has been modernized with the introduction of the Badger H-6K. The Navy does not have an interceptor capable of shooting the archer before he shoots his arrows. A Super Hornet with three external fuel tanks and a full air intercept load of 6 AIM-120D has rather limited effective combat radius of around 400 miles. As a result, the maximum engagement range of the Super Hornet/AIM-120D combination less than Tomcat/Phoenix combination from the 1990s.

The Navy currently has two products in development that can address this new long-range cruise missile threat: The Block III Super Hornet with conformal fuel tanks and the SM-6 Dual II missile. The Block III Super Hornet in development will include conformal fuel tanks that will allow the Block III Hornet to have an increased combat radius while freeing up the high capacity weapons stations 4 and 8. A Block III Hornet with the conformal fuel tanks will be able to carry 4 SM-6 Dual II missiles and 6 AIM-120D missiles along with a single external fuel tank on weapons station 6 to a combat radius of 510 miles.

The SM-6 Dual II missile currently in development by the Navy is capable of engaging both air and surface targets out to a range of 130 miles when launched from the surface. The missile is about 15 feet in length and 1,800 pounds, and so can be accommodated on four weapons stations of the Super Hornet, weapons stations 3, 4, 8, and 9. In a Block II Super Hornet, weapons stations 4, 6, and 8 are normally occupied by external fuel tanks, but on a Block III Hornet, with weapons stations 4 and 8 freed, an SM-6 can be carried on the 4 stations mentioned earlier.

The process of qualifying the SM-6 Dual I to be carried on a Super Hornet should not be needlessly complex...
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/upgrade-will-make-the-super-hornet-deadlier-ever-24699

Mark
Ottawa

 

[SupersonicMax]

Certifyinf any kind of new weapon on a platform is a complex task.  It's a lot more than "does it fit".

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

The article seems to paint the new missile as a Super Hornet attribute, but if the Navy adopts it, would they not also integrate it into the F-35?

 

[AlexanderM]

The article seems to paint the new missile as a Super Hornet attribute, but if the Navy adopts it, would they not also integrate it into the F-35?

As far as I know the F-35 is supposed to at some point use the Meteor missile which I suspect would be a better option.

http://www.mbda-systems.com/press-releases/meteor-integration-f-35-takes-significant-step-forward/

 

[MarkOttawa]

Too big for F-35 to carry internally, wonder whether wing hard-points could accommodate it either.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MarkOttawa]

RCAF's fighter farce in context--pity our media mention so little what others, esp. NATO allies, are doing:

RCAF becoming the poor stepsister of even smaller militaries

"In spite of their small size and heavy commitment to social welfare programs Scandinavian countries are already in the process of replacing their 1980s era fighter fleets."

As the Trudeau Liberals continue to dither and drag their feet on buying a new fighter jet, Canadians may indeed end up being lulled into a new normal of short-term, half-measures and improvisation.

But before we become too comfortable, we need to be ready to brace for a future of shame and shunning as our antiquated 1980s-era jets, which may have to remain operational until 2032, attempt to fly with the more modern air forces of our allies.

The allies in question are not the United States, nor Great Britain and France. Instead the true test of political pride will be when we realize just how much smaller NATO and other allied countries have outdone us when it comes to updating their fighter fleets.

From Austria to Australia, Netherlands to Kuwait, smaller nations are in the process of taking on newer, more advanced fighters. With combined operations being the new norm, these fleets of modern fighter aircraft will inevitably make our once proud Royal Canadian Air Force the modern aerial combat version of the sword wielding mounted cavalry in mechanized warfare.

Canadians had good reason to halt and reassess the planned purchase of 65 F-35 Lightning in 2012. The Harper Conservatives were clearly trying to deceive Canadians as to the full cost of the program. But at the same time Canadians need to take note that smaller NATO allies are currently moving ahead with their own acquisitions of recently developed fighter aircraft — whether it be the F-35 Lightning, the Eurofighter Typhoon Tranche 3A, or the Swedish JAS 39 Gripen NG. And many are completing their acquisitions at a speed and resolve that would turn the hopelessly dawdling Canadian military procurement process on its head.

In spite of their small size and heavy commitment to social welfare programs Scandinavian countries are already in the process of replacing their 1980s era fighter fleets. Denmark and Norway are already phasing out their F-16s with new orders of 27 and 55 F-35 Lightning respectively coming into operation.

Also leading Canada on the procurement front is the Netherlands, which is already taking delivery of 37 F-35s. Belgium is close to confirming its purchase of 34 F-35. Tiny, neutral Austria already has 15 relatively new Eurofighter typhoons in its inventory acquired in 2003 of which it plans to replace by 2020. Italy will be acquiring both the F-35 Lightning and Eurofighter Typhoon Tranche 3A with 90 and 21 respectively of these new aircraft that are now coming online.

Even Australia has decided to purchase 72 F-35s, which is seven more than Harper Conservatives originally planned and failed to buy. Meanwhile they are selling their older F-18 fighter jets to us Canadians giving us a chance to save some face in the years to come...

Certainly this new reality may be perfectly fine if we truly think that we no longer stand to benefit as a nation by being able to do our share and project our air defence capability at a comparable and compatible level to even the much smaller and less populous nations of Europe, Asia or Africa. Yet if that is the case Canada shouldn’t delude itself into thinking that it stands to play anything other than the most token role in future military conflicts.

To demand anything more on our part would be an insult to the soon to be more technologically-advanced, war-ready airforces of Norway, Denmark, Netherlands, Kuwait, and Australia.

Robert Smol served in the Canadian Armed Forces for over 20 years joining as a Private in the infantry and retiring as a Captain in the Intelligence Branch. He holds a Master of Arts in War Studies from the Royal Military College as well as degrees from McGill and Queen’s University.
https://ipolitics.ca/2018/03/05/rcaf-becoming-poor-stepsister-even-smaller-militaries/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Rifleman62]

Hopefully, as a NAFTA negotiation point, Trump will tell Canada that it must contribute a modern fighter to NORAD (and NATO) and in the interest of NA trade, the F-35 is your choice.

 

[MarkOttawa]

'Twould seem way is now clear for Block III SH bid for RCAF, if enough goodies--and (any) gov't can tout "stealthy":

Boeing won’t appeal Bombardier CSeries ruling
http://atwonline.com/manufacturers/boeing-won-t-appeal-bombardier-cseries-ruling

Boeing’s Next-Gen Super Hornet Will Be (Sort Of) Stealthy

President Donald Trump was ridiculed on Twitter after pronouncing during a visit to Boeing’s St. Louis facility that the company’s new F/A-18 Super Hornet will be equipped with the “latest and the greatest stealth, and a lot of things on that plane that people don’t even know about.”

But it turns out Trump was on to something. Boeing is about to kick off an exhaustive effort to transition the U.S. Navy’s carrier air wing to the “Block III” Super Hornet, a next-generation version of the strike fighter complete with new sensors, extended range, a more powerful computer and, yes, enhanced stealth coating.

These changes will allow the Super Hornet to fly alongside the Lockheed Martin F-35C carrier variant as the backbone of the Navy’s carrier air wing into the 2040s and beyond, says Dan Gillian, Boeing F/A-18 and EA-18 program manager.

Block III Super Hornet will get enhanced stealth coating

New aircraft will begin rolling off the production line in 2020

Trump previewed the new and improved fighter during a March 14 visit to the St. Louis facility, which has been building F/A-18s, first the A-D Hornet and later the E/F Super Hornet, since 1978.

Gillian confirms that an improved low-observable (LO) coating will be one of five key characteristics of the Block III Super Hornet. The fighter is already “a very stealth airplane today”—he says, declining to elaborate—but there are new coatings engineers can apply on different surfaces of the aircraft to make it even more survivable, he says.

The F/A-18 was not designed specifically to be stealthy and lacks many of the fundamental stealth characteristics baked into Lockheed Martin’s F-35 and F-22 airframes. But there are other ways to enhance stealth, such as adding LO coating and radar-absorbent material improvements in certain locations on the airframe. A few simple changes “can buy us just a little bit of performance that’s low-cost and easy to go do,” Gillian says.

The souped-up aircraft the Navy has agreed to buy looks very different from Boeing’s original 2013 proposal for an “Advanced Super Hornet,” which focused on stealth. Boeing engineers found they needed to make design compromises to significantly reduce the aircraft’s radar cross section—for instance, by restricting payload, Gillian told Aviation Week in 2017 (AW&ST Feb. 20-March 5, 2017, p. 17).

This drove Boeing to drop certain features of the 2013 proposal, such as an enclosed weapons pod and internal infrared search-and-track (IRST) sensor, from the newest package.

The Navy will begin procuring the Block III Super Hornet in fiscal 2019 with a 24-aircraft buy, the first of which will come off the production line in 2020. Over the next five years, the Navy proposes buying 110 additional Super Hornets, including a three-year procurement [emphasis added, "block buy"], which is a significant boost from last year’s budget request...
http://aviationweek.com/defense/boeing-s-next-gen-super-hornet-will-be-sort-stealthy

Likely continued significant production should also keep costs down.

Mark
Ottawa