The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[OldSolduer]

So not being an expert on fighters (Infantry so not really an expert on anything) what is THE BEST fighter jet currently available in the world, that we can access?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

So not being an expert on fighters (Infantry so not really an expert on anything) what is THE BEST fighter jet currently available in the world, that we can access?

What neighbourhood is your country and what do you want to do with your fighter force?

There is no one answer to that question.

 

[OldSolduer]

What neighbourhood is your country and what do you want to do with your fighter force?

There is no one answer to that question.

My thought is that we proceed with all 88 F 35s and perhaps option another 44.

 

[SupersonicMax]

So not being an expert on fighters (Infantry so not really an expert on anything) what is THE BEST fighter jet currently available in the world, that we can access?

It depends for what purposes. NORAD? F-15EX IMO. Exped? F-35A

 

[Kirkhill]

Brits still proceeding with AJAX

Introduced something new to me...

20 40 40

20% Survival Layer
40% Attritable/Reusable Layer
40% Consumable Layer


Survival Layer - Conventional Weapons (Challenger, Artillery, Attack Helicopters (Ajax))
Attritable/Reusable Layer - High End Surveillance, Reconnaissance Drones, AI Enabled
Consumable Layer - Loitering Munitions, Kamikaze Drones

Presumably that is the budget effort.

Next iteration will be

How many 300,000 USD cruise missiles will be bought?

How many 3,000,000 USD recoverable Valkyries will be bought?

How many 30,000,000 reusable CCAs will be bought?

How many 300,000,000 Gen 6s like GCAP will be bought?

Do these two thoughts marry up?

As in

20% Survivable equivalent to 6th Gen fighters

40% Attritable/Reusable equivalent to CCAs in the 3 to 30 MUSD range

40% Consumables equivalent to cruise missiles and other smart munitions.

Presumably the MQ-9B slots into the Attritable/Reusable category as a high end surveillance and recce device.

But what is one to make of the PQ8?

Or satellites?

There is so much cross-pollination going on just now it is difficult to see how any rules can be anythung more than guidelines.

 

[YZT580]

It depends for what purposes. NORAD? F-15EX IMO. Exped? F-35A

the go-to substitute seems to be the Raphael. How would it compare for a NORAD role? Is it compatible and does it have the legs for northern dispersal? And finally, would it work for maintenance and service in an austere environment?

 

[Kirkhill]

the go-to substitute seems to be the Raphael. How would it compare for a NORAD role? Is it compatible and does it have the legs for northern dispersal? And finally, would it work for maintenance and service in an austere environment?

Typhoon is still making sales

Eurofighter Typhoon procurement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Germany orders 20 new Eurofighters to strengthen air superiority

Germany is strengthening its defence capabilities with the purchase of 20 new Eurofighters.

www.airbus.com

https://www.eurofighter.com/news/eurofighter-welcomes-tuerkiye-as-new-partner-with-order-for-20-typhoon-jets

 

[Swampbuggy]

That's the downside of having lots of Toronto Maple Leafs fans in decision making positions.

Patiently waiting to hear if there’s an upside….?

 

[KevinB]

Patiently waiting to hear if there’s an upside….?

Solid Golf game?

 

[Navy_Pete]

Patiently waiting to hear if there’s an upside….?

Built in optimism? That tends to get taken to far though in risk acceptance, making Pollyanna look like Debbie downer.

You can dependably make fun of them in the playoffs I guess when the Leafs choke I guess, but not really any real upsides. Plus if the Leafs ever win a cup again they will be insufferable for decades.

 

[Prairie canuck]

The engines are but a minor part of the ITAR controlled aspects in that jet.


Yeah Canada way to go, yet another orphan fleet.

FFS, y'all need to change Stand on Guard for Thee, to Snatching Defeat from the jaws of Victory.

Maybe so but this shift sits squarely in the lap of the present US administration which has become unreliable and maybe even threatening as a partner. Canada will not be the only nation who will divest itself of ties to the US military industrial complex. Be careful of where you point your finger unless it's at the mirror.

 

[Swampbuggy]

Built in optimism? That tends to get taken to far though in risk acceptance, making Pollyanna look like Debbie downer.

You can dependably make fun of them in the playoffs I guess when the Leafs choke I guess, but not really any real upsides. Plus if the Leafs ever win a cup again they will be insufferable for decades.

So, like these guys, then??

 

[Czech_pivo]

The drumming is getting louder......

Swedish king’s visit highlights growing Canadian interest in Saab military aircraft​

Business and political delegation will visit Canada from Nov. 18-20, with stops in Ottawa and Montreal​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/swedish-king-canada-visit-9.6971674

 

[Czech_pivo]

Swedish news reports.

https://www.affarsvarlden.se/artikel/kungen-och-saab-till-kanada-medier-spar-jatteaffar

The King and Saab to Canada – media predict huge deal​

The fact that the Swedish king and queen are suddenly going on a state visit to Canada indicates a new giant deal for Saab.

Most of the article is behind a paywall sadly.

 

[SupersonicMax]

the go-to substitute seems to be the Raphael. How would it compare for a NORAD role? Is it compatible and does it have the legs for northern dispersal? And finally, would it work for maintenance and service in an austere environment?

NORAD is all about interoperability with the US. The Rafale does not give that.

 

[KevinB]

Maybe so but this shift sits squarely in the lap of the present US administration which has become unreliable and maybe even threatening as a partner. Canada will not be the only nation who will divest itself of ties to the US military industrial complex. Be careful of where you point your finger unless it's at the mirror.

If a bunch of the aircrafts systems and avionics are ITAR, what good does swapping the engine do?

Right now in the F-35 you have a top notch aircraft that has Canadian Made content.

The current administration is a big fucking mess, I agree, but I think tossing out the best options for Canada for a short sighted snub is a poor idea.

 

[QV]

If a bunch of the aircrafts systems and avionics are ITAR, what good does swapping the engine do?

Right now in the F-35 you have a top notch aircraft that has Canadian Made content.

The current administration is a big fucking mess, I agree, but I think tossing out the best options for Canada for a short sighted snub is a poor idea.

Really dumb things have been done in the name of politics. I fully expect something dumb to happen with this F-35 thing over perceived politics.

 

[dapaterson]

So not being an expert on fighters (Infantry so not really an expert on anything) what is THE BEST fighter jet currently available in the world, that we can access?

X-Wing. Always the X-Wing.

 

[Czech_pivo]

If a bunch of the aircrafts systems and avionics are ITAR, what good does swapping the engine do?

Right now in the F-35 you have a top notch aircraft that has Canadian Made content.

The current administration is a big fucking mess, I agree, but I think tossing out the best options for Canada for a short sighted snub is a poor idea.

Don't believe that the end result, if this Saab Gripen spin is ultimately correct, would be Canada 'tossing out the best options for Canada' but a pivot towards 2 distinct sets of fighters. My guess, and its a guess, is that we'll continue forward with a reduced number of F35's into the future as well as the Gripen, with or without Rolls-Royce engines.

If the US goes down the route of kicking sand in our face regarding other ITAR related items on the Gripens, Canada could easily dangle the Aegis system on the future River class and say, fine, we'll go with the BAE CMS with the UK, Norwegians and Australians. Again, our first 3 Rivers could only have the Aegis and the remaining 12 BAE's CMS.

I am certain that there is alot more to what is going on than what is being made public, on this topic and others. Eventually it may come out, some or all, eventually and the results may shock us.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Really dumb things have been done in the name of politics. I fully expect something dumb to happen with this F-35 thing over perceived politics.

'Over perceived politics' - Please elaborate.