The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[GR66]

People here don't want to acknowledge the sheer about of money we are going to be sending to LM over the next 20yrs.

HIMARS --> K239 Chunmoo
AEGIS --> Keep CMS 330
AEGIS related systems --> Keep CMS 330
F35 --> Reduce order to 65 and add 65 x Gripen
Seahawks to replace the Cyclones if that rumour is correct --> AW101

EASILY in excesses of 35 billion CAD in new spend.

Options?

 

[ytz]

Is there currently a major Canadian player in that field? Is Sweden ahead or behind our national capability?

No major Canadian player. The Swedes gave talked about making an unmanned Gripen derivative. So maybe ahead of us.

 

[Kirkhill]

No major Canadian player. The Swedes gave talked about making an unmanned Gripen derivative. So maybe ahead of us.

I have become a fan of the Kratos RATO/Parachute model for the lower end CCA type vehicles. Runway, and to large extent platform, independent with liwer costs.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Options?

HIMARS looks to be a done deal, fine.

F35, we need them, whether we go with 65 or 88, but we need them.

AEGIS - could be we only do the first 3 of the 15 as AEGIS and the other 12 are the BAE system with CMS330.

But if nothing changes we are set to send a shit ton of Treasure off to LM.

 

[KevinB]

It is not just the US that has been hurt by the Continuous Improvement exercise that has delayed Block 4 and US weapons integration. Lack of access to a continually changing software system is not going to allow foreign partners to integrate their full inventory of weapons with the F35 in a timely fashion. Development needs to happen at Ukrainian pace and that means Israeli levels of access to the codes.

It isn’t access, it’s who is willing to spend, and who has the capabilities.
The Israelis have decided to go their own path and fund it (albeit with a lot of FMA from us).

When Blocks are done the various projects are prioritized, and if you are a minor player with a unique item, the odds of being a priority are slim to nil.

Israel's F35's weapons suite

Rampage ALBM
1000 kg bomb that can be internally carried
Python 5 AAM
Spice PGM Bombs (1000 and 2000 lb)
Derby AAM
EW suite nationally procured
C4I suite that operates on top of the factory sets

As well as the US made

GBU-31 JDAM and
AIM-120 AMRAAM.

....

UK - AIM-132 and Paveway IV
Norway - AIM-120, JDAM, SDB, AIM-9X, JSM
US - AIM-120, AIM-9X, JDAM (GBU-31, -32, -38) GBU-12 Paveway II, GBU-39 SDB, B61-12 Nuclear Gravity Bomb)
....

The feel is less one of co-operation and more one of compulsion.

Having only sat as a bit player in some rather minor airworthiness changes to an internal part inside another container - that testing ran over 35m. Which was seen as a rounding error in that sense, as this is a trillion dollar program and any alterations have to be 110% as failures or weaknesses have the potential to ground most of the NATO airpower.

When you start looking at what adapting some things that actually affect aircraft controls, the costs of that is eye watering.
The USAF is behind on integration testing as well due to lower than required airframes to keep pace with the demands.

 

[Kirkhill]

It isn’t access, it’s who is willing to spend, and who has the capabilities.
The Israelis have decided to go their own path and fund it (albeit with a lot of FMA from us).

When Blocks are done the various projects are prioritized, and if you are a minor player with a unique item, the odds of being a priority are slim to nil.



Having only sat as a bit player in some rather minor airworthiness changes to an internal part inside another container - that testing ran over 35m. Which was seen as a rounding error in that sense, as this is a trillion dollar program and any alterations have to be 110% as failures or weaknesses have the potential to ground most of the NATO airpower.

When you start looking at what adapting some things that actually affect aircraft controls, the costs of that is eye watering.
The USAF is behind on integration testing as well due to lower than required airframes to keep pace with the demands.

Which, frankly, doesn't help the sales pitch.

I am still on board with buying kit from you. Just not putting all our eggs in the proverbial.

 

[KevinB]

Which, frankly, doesn't help the sales pitch.

I am still on board with buying kit from you. Just not putting all our eggs in the proverbial.

Well keep in mind that various user nations have been asked if they wanted to contribute airframes and pilots to the test pool.
Guess the number of takers…

 

[Kirkhill]

Well keep in mind that various user nations have been asked if they wanted to contribute airframes and pilots to the test pool.
Guess the number of takers…

I believe in 80:20.
Close is good enough for me...assuming overlappjng capabilities.

 

[MilEME09]

I think the current US "peace plan" (surrender plan) for Ukraine is about to play heavily here, if the US does indeed halt deliveries of equipment europe paid for already, I dont see us staying F35 if the US will use equipment deliveries as a bargaining chip at trade talks to force us into a bad deal by affecting our national security.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I think the current US "peace plan" (surrender plan) for Ukraine is about to play heavily here, if the US does indeed halt deliveries of equipment europe paid for already, I dont see us staying F35 if the US will use equipment deliveries as a bargaining chip at trade talks to force us into a bad deal by affecting our national security.

It would be interesting to see a scenario occurring, and how it would play out, where the US lifts its upholding of the sanctions against Russia but the rest of NATO (minus Trump's lackey Hungary), us, Japan, Australia, South Korea still keeping them in place.