Just keep it away from Nanny’s Hole or Granny’s Hole.
The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
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KevinB
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We read Russian and Chinese mail. Neither respect anything but their opponents strength and will take a mile if given an inch.
Not to start, but to finish a fight Russia has already started.
Generations of Canadians and Europeans enjoyed the ‘peace dividend’ unfortunately that enjoyment was exceedingly premature.
If Canada and Europe had kept to 2% following the wall, I suspect the world would be a much different place.
Trump was right about a lot of things, however he’s acting a fool now, and pissing away any possible goodwill.
I hope Canada gets at least 88 F-35, not because they are American, but because I think they are the best choice currently, other than a F-15EX, and F-35 split, but I think that split even if say 66 of each the drain on the RCAF will be enormous, and take a lot longer to recover from.
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If Canada is splitting its F35 buy then:
66 F35As and 35 F35Bs
theaviationgeekclub.com
66 F35As and 35 F35Bs
USMC Harrier pilot recalls USAF drill where AV-8Bs takeoff was not allowed because F-16s and F-15s couldn’t launch since runways were closed for simulated strikes
During a USAF drill where runways were closed for simulated missiles strikes USMC AV-8Bs could takeoff but not allowed to launch
theaviationgeekclub.com
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The latest news on the ongoing affair as whether Canada will acquire the Gripen and if we do; how many? The possible acquistion of Globaleye AEW&C aircraft is also discussed.
Not surprisingly the RCAF has some objections to acquiring the Globaleye .
Not surprisingly the RCAF has some objections to acquiring the Globaleye .
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Of course there will be 'some in the RCAF' who aren't happy. When was the last time any large group of diverse individuals spread across a vast country ever all nodded together like a bunch of trained seals? There will always be a cadre of individuals who aren't happy with this decision or that decision.
If that story holds roughly true and the RCAF is looking at 72-88 F35's and a similar number of Gripens, good. Its nice to see this country go back to the number of fighters it had back in 1983. Our population has vastly increased since then, as has our wealth and the need.
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From the article
This to me is key to any split fleet decision...keeping the F-35 buy to at least the original requirement of 65. The Gripen buy needs to be at least that many as well, so the rumour of 72 and 72 would work.
IF that is the case then hopefully we'd start working with Saab immediately on the development of a long range, stealth UAV to work with the fighter fleet that we'd produce domestically once the Gripen assembly run is complete. Between 72 Gripens (and potential foreign orders) followed by a UCAV fleet maybe that would be enough to encourage GE to expand their facility in Bromont to include assembly of the F414 engines that the Gripen uses.
MilEME09
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This would suggest a plan to vastly expand the rcaf fighter force to 4 operational squadrons atleast as well. Where we putting them?
HavokFour
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In Europe
Rainbow1910
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The only avenues where it makes sense for a split fleet of 72 F-35A and 72 Gripen E/F is if we're focused on domestic jobs production and developing our aviation industry. I'd argue we can do these items without sticking the RCAF with an inferior platform. In every other metric besides anti-American spite, it makes zero sense to double the fleet with a slow to produce, upgraded 4th generation fighter and plan to operate it for the foreseeable future.
From what I can see, the current F-35 delivery schedule will have all 88 aircraft in the hands of the RCAF between 2032 and 2034. If we're charitable and assume a contract is signed this year with Saab to start immediate work on an assembly facility (yes assembly, not production/manufacturing), we're likely looking at 5 years best case scenario just to get the facility operational. Delays could push this further and it takes time for the facility and its workers to grow proficient. Saab has a low rate of production domestically, requiring aircraft for Sweden while also having to assist Brazil in its manufacture and assembly process and looking to fulfill orders to a few relatively small foreign clients & Ukraine as well. Even once our facility is online, we're largely assembling parts coming from Saab and manufacturing limited amounts of our own from scratch.
By the time a factory would be nominally operational in 2031, we would have 52 F-35A's delivered to the RCAF and another 18 on the way that year. We would somehow need to scrape together enough Gripen's to set up our own squadrons, once we take the time to set up an alternate pilot training program, build the infrastructure and begin preparing for delivery. The CF-18 fleet would be largely transitioned to the F-35 by this point anyway, and preparing to do even more. Where are the additional pilots and associated staff going to come from for double the fleet? Even if we could do training largely in Sweden and pry a few aircraft from the production line, we're going to be into the mid to late 2030's in all likelihood before the Gripen would be operational in any meaningful way in Canada.
So now the RCAF finds itself operating a souped up 4th generation fighter that is largely worse than the other half of the split fleet, on a far slower delivery cadence, being assembled in Canada, with few foreign operators while both our allies and enemies are fielding increasingly large amounts of 5th and even 6th generation fighters. Are we seriously going to be operating Gripen E/F past the 2060's given their late delivery and lifecycle? That comes off to me as a poor financial decision and an even worse military decision. Modernized Russian and Chinese 4th generation fighters can give the Gripen E/F a run for its money, let alone even something like the SU-57 or any of the Chinese options. The RCAF would be losing overmatch capability for half of its fleet, with duplication of capability in some aspects while the Gripen is inferior as a fighting machine overall.
I feel for the RCAF, their core procurement project has been politized to high hell and seems caught in a limbo that looks increasingly like we're going to be saddled with a sub-par mix of platforms. It would be far more prescient for the RCAF to throw its eggs into unmanned wingman and 6th gen fighter baskets than line them up for the Gripen.
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Um- that is the current fighter force. 4 Sqns.
Do you mean expand past 4 Sqns?
If so, Comox, Greenwood and maybe North Bay might be players for Sqns.
Out of curiosity why North Bay?
Oldgateboatdriver
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How about Mirabel?
daftandbarmy
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Can they co locate the F35s and Gripens or is it best for separate bases or at least hanger infrastructure?
MilEME09
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Yes I do, because this would essentially double our fighter force
AvroArrow92
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I think the problem is the security requirements of the F35. It’s some next level stuff and I don’t think we could have common secure bays even if we wanted it. If we actually grow back to say 8 operational squadrons plus 2 OCS. Assuming current CF-18 footprint is one for one with F35. We definitely need more bases in Southern Canada. The problem is the current non fast jet bases we have can barely fit what we’re buying. Comox and Greenwood both could maybe take a squadron. If we start up flying again in North Bay maybe 1-2 squadrons. Might make more sense if they actually base the GlobalEye there. After that what? Maybe Winnipeg a squadron? They would be constantly fighting priority with civilian traffic, where would you but the ordnances that have the safe blast range? Same problem with Maribel. Outside those possibilities complete guess on my part Goose Bay or potentially Yellowknife if the full FOL/ mini CFB plan comes to fruition. Both those locations could fit 2 TFS probably. Those places would really struggle in terms of keeping personal around and the cost jezzz even we have the money will be eye watering.
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If the AEW fleet ends up there, that means we are paying for airfield upgrades, anyway. Might as well make it pay with more than one Sqn…
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Ammo storage “might” be an issue without expropriating more land. Not sure.
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I thought Mirabel was huge and unused?
